Head Gasket Repair for a Rover K16 (16v K-series) 1.8 VVC, in a Rover 200 Vi

[620Turbo]

I've not yet found a reason to doubt the originality of it being a Vi, the spec all seems to be there from what I've seen of other examples... but don't say things like that because you give me reason to doubt :lol:

It will probably scare you to hear that I'm pulling the Vi's engine apart this weekend! :eek: :lol: :D

What are you doing to it? Are you just installing it in something else or are you actually cracking it open?

EDIT By GT :: 04/03/2008 :: As this thread is still so popular after so long, I thought it was appropriate to link to the main article on the site in post #1. Sadly the article is still under construction after all this time :o

http://www.brit-cars.com/rover/200_25_streetwise_commerce/rover_kseries_head_gasket_repair_1800_vvc

[GT]

Cracking it open, HGF repair!

[620Turbo]

Cracking it open, HGF repair!

Heh heh heh. Has it been overheated?

Have you got the locking tools?

If you are gonna keep this car, USE THE LAND ROVER MLS GASKET AND RAIL for the repair.

When you have the head off, take a lot of time to check the liners above deck height and relating to each other. Also check for any signs of cracking.

Check head for distortion with a straight edge and check for fire ring damage (circle indent into head around each chamber) and do not dissasemble the head unless you really know what you are doin and have the specialist timing tools required.

Clean everything up so it is really smooth and get the head and block surfaces 110%. If any muppets have damaged the block or head so there is a dent, you can use liquid metal or similar.

Mark the two multiplugs on the VVC mech before taking them off as they are very easy to mix up on re-assembly.

Depending on mileage, may well be worth changing water pump and stat while you have her apart.

Take a load of pics!!

[GT]

Pics are already planned, I'd like to make a bit of a running documentry if I can! :D

I've tried to get some LR parts quotes, but my local dealer only seems interested in me taking my err 'Freelander' into them for a £2,200 repair!

Locking & timing tools will be sourced from our local motor factors this week...

The car has not had the temperature guage move beyond normal whilst in my posession, and the previous owner claims to not have either, but of this I have no guarantee!

I've got a Haynes manual from my R8 k-series, which shows the sequence of bolt removals etc, I need to check their torque settings for the VVC somehow.

I've also got what seems to be an official Land Rover PDF document about things to check for damage and excess wear with regards to 'repair' or replace the engine.

I have time on my side, so I wont be rushing into anything, at 165k on the clock, the water pump is probably due for replacement as you suggest.

I've also been reading up on your Land Rover replacement parts thread and some MGF VVC HGF repair articles from Roger Parker.

The head does concern me, as it has had an HGF repair 65,000 miles ago, finding another VVC head by itself wont be easy and I suspect a new one will not be cheap. I've read that even small pin-prick style mark on the head should be sorted?

It seems to bit a bit of a black art though, mentioning that its a VVC seems to make most people cringe, too. Any help or advice is more than welcome :D ;)

The head gasket replacement itself I think I'm getting my head around now, and the 'cleaning' element, whilst tedious, should be OK. I have not yet looked into the rail or bearings ladder, or many of the ancilleries yet.

As an extra note (and this is where you tell me this is disasterous) some water has made it back into the air-box... I am preying that this doesn't mean the worst once inside, but the only way I will know for sure is when I open it up :o

[620Turbo]

Pics are already planned, I'd like to make a bit of a running documentry if I can! :D

I've tried to get some LR parts quotes, but my local dealer only seems interested in me taking my err 'Freelander' into them for a £2,200 repair!

Locking & timing tools will be sourced from our local motor factors this week...

The car has not had the temperature guage move beyond normal whilst in my posession, and the previous owner claims to not have either, but of this I have no guarantee!

I've got a Haynes manual from my R8 k-series, which shows the sequence of bolt removals etc, I need to check their torque settings for the VVC somehow.

I've also got what seems to be an official Land Rover PDF document about things to check for damage and excess wear with regards to 'repair' or replace the engine.

I have time on my side, so I wont be rushing into anything, at 165k on the clock, the water pump is probably due for replacement as you suggest.

I've also been reading up on your Land Rover replacement parts thread and some MGF VVC HGF repair articles from Roger Parker.

The head does concern me, as it has had an HGF repair 65,000 miles ago, finding another VVC head by itself wont be easy and I suspect a new one will not be cheap. I've read that even small pin-prick style mark on the head should be sorted?

It seems to bit a bit of a black art though, mentioning that its a VVC seems to make most people cringe, too. Any help or advice is more than welcome :D ;)

The head gasket replacement itself I think I'm getting my head around now, and the 'cleaning' element, whilst tedious, should be OK. I have not yet looked into the rail or bearings ladder, or many of the ancilleries yet.

As an extra note (and this is where you tell me this is disasterous) some water has made it back into the air-box... I am preying that this doesn't mean the worse once inside, but the only way I will know for sure is when I open it up :o

I take it that it runs at the moment though? VVC mechs can fail, so you need to make sure everything else is OK before you start spending cash.

As you are probably aware, you don't want to crack the carriers open or you will be getting into disturbing the Very Very Complicated system.

Defo use the Land Rover MLS head gasket and the new bearing ladder, if you are keeping the car and are gonna thrash it about. Not sure how much life the engine will have left in it at that mileage to be honest. If you are just gonna botch it up and learn a bit, use the MGR mk3 head gasket, also know as a Payen gasket IIRC. It is obvious when you see it as it has reinforced elastometric beading, looks like it is smeared around the tracks.

Blimey Rob, you do pick em though. Trying to do a VVC as your starting point. . . . . . :D

Joking aside, you should be fine, just steady as she goes and do everything nice and slow. Do not rely on Haynes too much if I were you. . . .

Personally, I would - :

run the engine up and make sure it is not a basket case before starting work. I take it there is still oil in there and the HGF is not too bad?

take off the top cam cover either side and see what the score is with the timing before doing anything. Check the cam oil seals and the cam carrier as best you can, so you know you are not gonna have to start splitting the head and can just whip it off and put it back again as a complete assembly.

I assume it will have had the recall done for the shearing bolt by now. What age is it?

[ZS]

Personally, I would - :

run the engine up and make sure it is not a basket case before starting work. I take it there is still oil in there and the HGF is not too bad?

take off the top cam cover either side and see what the score is with the timing before doing anything. Check the cam oil seals and the cam carrier as best you can, so you know you are not gonna have to start splitting the head and can just whip it off and put it back again as a complete assembly.

I assume it will have had the recall done for the shearing bolt by now. What age is it?

It runs... Infact when we picked it up it ran quite well, drove it 2 miles to a garage and its now a bit lumpy... Not overly bad though (nothing compaired to the Diesel HGF I had!)

Cam seals all look fine... So I beleive its just head off replace gasket and then put it back again. Although I would like to look at the VVC mechanism to make sure its okay, as there was water/oil mix in the airbox (as rob said)

Its on an R plate so should have had the shearing bolt recall done I guess?

[GT]

Its a 1997 R-Registered car.

It might be high milleage, but if I do it properly, I'm hoping that it'll go on for a few more miles yet. I got it for so little money, that I'm not going to loose much if the worse happens - no more than spending an extra months finance on the ZR, anyway!

I'll avoid playing with the 'VVC' element for now, I'll save that for a weekend after easter :D

I've seen pics of the 'Payen' gasket, complete with smeers and 'blobs'... so I'll take a look as to which is currently fitted.

When I collected the car, the guy had the engine running, but it didnt take long for it to start complaining from what I think (and hope!) is just a lack of water.

If the engine is shot, I'll either break the car and get some of my money back, or change my learning experiance to doing an engine swap with another lower-mileage example :D (Although, that will requrie more tools and a small re-think).

It seems ZS (who will be assisting in the operation) has answered some of the questions anyway... but if you think it'll be OK, I'll start it up tonight and see what happens.

[620Turbo]

Yeah, just make sure there is coolant in it and it is not pi55ing it into the sump or anything and run it up. VVC's sound rattly anyway, but you need to check for heavy knocks or rattles from either end of the inlet cam(s) to indicate a duff mechanism.

What is it actually doing then to indicate HGF?

You should be able to do the whole job for less than £100, incl oils, etc.

Need a decent tool set, including the E drive for the head bolts, decent torque wrench, locking tool is very useful, etc.

make sure you time it up well before taking the head off and also undo the tensioner and backplate bolts before trying to remove the head, although you can probably remove the head with the inlet manifold on, although I have not done that with a VVC b4.

[620Turbo]

Water in the air box is odd, but could just be rain/condensation I guess. Or it could be coolant in the oil breather system which suggests a coolant to oil HGF.

Could be an easy job lads and it certainly sounds good now you probably DON'T have to take the head apart. If you have to do that, it is a mare. . . .

[GT]

HGF is indicated by the very obvious mayo in the head, and the dissapearing coolant, about a tea-cups worth is in the air-box, mixed with oil. :o

I'm happy to invest in good tools, as it will be far cheaper than paying a dealer to do it, and can be re-used in the future.

I'm hoping my paranoia of breaking something is a good sign of me making sure everything is checked carefully! :D

[620Turbo]

Excellent, sounds like a fairly reasonable job then!

In my experience, I would:

drive car up a set of ramps and crack crank nut off with breaker bar/torque wrench - car in 5th, engine has been run to get car up ramps so servo still has some pressure so assitant can stamp on brakes. It is pretty tight, so will need som stick and preferably a 6 sided nice snug socket. (it is anti clock to undo and not a trick thread). Getting the crank pulley off without an air gun can be fun if you don't know how.

etc.

[TechnoGoat]

My ZR105 has this..
I thought ABS was standard on all 1.8 models - and became standard on the 1.4's in 2003/04? - does this mean your car was built quite a while before sale. Hmm.

[GT]

Starting the Vi up to check what its like when running may be difficult... the battery is dead :confused2

Time to get the old charger out and see how badly that battery has been abused in the past :rolleyes:

TechnoGoat : My build number is in the late 40 (thousands) I think! I have had similar thoughts in the past about the history of my ZR... golf tee's in the boot from no-where near here have been found and IIRC its about 20,000 numbers short of the March 04 (mine is Jan 04) registered ZR+105 of Steveo, who lives local to me.

At least I know my Vi definatley has it :D

[620Turbo]

Heh heh,

Don't be paranoid Rob, as I have said, they all sound fairly rattly and diesely.

You are listening for any nasties from cold start, snap the throttle a few times to rev it and check you don't get any knocking or clonking as the engine is decellerating or accelerating.

Any major noise from either end of the inlet cam is also a sign of impending VVC doom also.

[King Minger]

I did give you the charger back, yeah?

[GT]

Yup, I've got it back, and the battery has been charging up over night.

Should be OK to give it a go when I get home today instead :)

On the plus side, Land Rover have now supplied me with a list of part numbers and prices from their own records of parts to use when changing a HGF, which I am led to believe includes the new MLS gasket and ladder.

I've left the list at home, but rest assured I'll make sure its all available soon enough :D

[620Turbo]

Yup, I've got it back, and the battery has been charging up over night.

Should be OK to give it a go when I get home today instead :)

On the plus side, Land Rover have now supplied me with a list of part numbers and prices from their own records of parts to use when changing a HGF, which I am led to believe includes the new MLS gasket and ladder.

I've left the list at home, but rest assured I'll make sure its all available soon enough :D

Good.

Rail - LCN000140L £29+VAT

Gasket Kit - LVB500190 £23+VAT. This is a head gasket and a shim which needs to be used with the new gasket - effectively a head saver I think.

The proviso is that the surfaces need to be pukka and you need to check the tolerances of the liners - both against the deck and against each other before you can fit this gasket. If they are out of tolerance, you have to use the old beaded gasket.

The rail is "supposed" to stiffen up the engine and hold the clamping forces on the head for longer as there is speculation that the original rail allows the clamping forces to reduce over time and is a contributory factor to K HGF.

The KV6 uses MLS gaskets. The KV6 also does not use the same method of head clamping. The KV6 does not suffer with routine HGF. . . . . . . .

[620Turbo]

Other than this, you will need a:

cam cover gasket
exhaust manifold gasket
inlet manifold gasket (if you need to take off the inlet manifold)
coolant outlet elbow gasket (and be prepared to spend 30 minutes scraping off the old one!)
thermostat (if you have not got a receipt for it being done recently)
water pump (as stat)
cambelt(s) (as stat)
sump jointing compound (if you are doing the rail)
exhaust downpipe gaskets (to mani and cat - if you are doing the rail)
oil filter
coolant
oil

I am sure I will think of more. May be worth phoning a unipart factors and getting prices as most of the time they are the same parts, just not in an MG Rover box.

[ZS]

Do you have to change the Rail whilst the head is off? or can you change the rail after/before?

[620Turbo]

Do you have to change the Rail whilst the head is off? or can you change the rail after/before?

You have to do the rail while the head is off IIRC as the head bolts go through the block and into the rail, pulling the rail upwards and "sandwiching" the engine together.

There are a few small bolts which stop the rail falling off, so you undo these and swap it over. I will check out the procedure for you now. . . .

[620Turbo]

Yeah, it is easy. There are only two bolts holding it on to the bottom of the block.

You need to remove the oil pick up pipe too, which will probably be a good thing as you will be able to wash it out ang get rid of some of the swarf that is bound to be in the gauze at that mileage - only two bolts for that.

You may need to use a new O ring when you put it back, I didn't on my Ti as I couldn't get one but it is good practice to really and only costs pence.

To get the sump off, (the Vi may have a torsion bar going to an ally sump IIRC from the front of the car) undo the bolts, noting the two longer ones and where they go and hit it gently with a mallet sideways and it will break the sealant bead.

As I said, there is no gasket, only sealant, so you need to get some more of this to refit. Buy 12 or so kitchen rolls as I reckon it will be nice and messy down there and you will need to clean it all up before refitting.

I use a razor blade, scraper tool which comes in useful for cleaning surfaces up but you need to be careful with it. Also, some wire wool and a decent wire brush - you will probably use this on the head and block too!

Also, a tip. Take off the torsion bar as soon as you start work IMO. I stripped one of the engine mount bolts to the engine cos I was trying to put the mount back on with the torsion bar still attached. The torsion bar pulls the drivetrain foreward meaning the bolts don't go in properly, so when you try and thread them, they misthread. Basically, do not try and thread any bolts in until you are sure they are nice and square. Cutting corners never works!!

[GT]

Sorry to keep pestering you... :blush:

With regards to the thermostat, hasn't the Freelander and the MGF both received a relocation update?

Will something be needed on the Vi?

Also, how critical is it to change the stretch bolts? LR quoted £5.60 a go, so that soon mounts up when talking double-figures :)

[620Turbo]

Sorry to keep pestering you... :blush:

With regards to the thermostat, hasn't the Freelander and the MGF both received a relocation update?

Will something be needed on the Vi?

Also, how critical is it to change the stretch bolts? LR quoted £5.60 a go, so that soon mounts up when talking double-figures :)

Rob, Its fine mate, ask away! Yes, the Freeloader, MGF and 75/ZT received a different stat. PRT stat. It appears now that this may still have not resolved the issue, hence this major change to the gasket and importantly, bearing ladder. It would be nice to have both, but I would not bother trying to change the stat location as you would need a load of new gear and it would cost £££££££'ssssss. Just wack a new stat in the standard housing.

Provided you check the liner heights and they are all fine, bang on this gasket and you can probably be reasonably confident it will be much better than the MGR "as built" engines.

Stretch bolts can be checked. When head is off, and sump is off, screw the bolts into the (original) oil rail as far as they will go. Inspect the threads first and make sure there is no cack there. When they stop screwing in, measure the distance between the block face and the underside of the bolt flange - should be 97mm or less. If it is, the bolts are fine!

I say sump is off, as I have heard stories of the ends of the bolts pressing on the sump, which means they are not actually in enough and the bolts have been torqued against the sump - hence, put the head back on and torque the bolts up before you put the sump back on! Then you know the head is clamped down and not just the bolts denting the sump!

Take a great deal of care not to rotate the crank at all when the head is off and not to rotate or disturb the liners. The liners are sealed at the bottom of the engine with hylomar sealant, if the liners are moved, the seal breaks and you need to re-seal them, which means crank and pistons out, etc. Nightmare.

Obviously, you can clean them up and they are reasonably solid so scraping them a little to clean the carbon will not harm it or anything.

[620Turbo]

Rob, a better way of checking the bolts for you, when you have the original oil rail removed, do this. This way you don't need to muck around measuring from the block face:

1. Ensuring cylinder head bolts are in their
original fitted location, screw each bolt by hand
into oil rail.

2. If full length of thread is engaged, bolt may be
re-used.

3. If full length of thread is not engaged, measure
distance from top face of oil rail to under bolt
head (up to under side of flange)
378 mm or less, bolt may be re-used.
Over 378 mm, new bolt must be used.

I forgot to say, I always make sure the bolts come out of the same place they go back into - i.e. don't mix the bolts up so you don't know what one came from what hole.

In my own personal experience, it is seldom required to replace these bolts unless some numpty has overtightened them before. Some dealers sell these bolts as a matter of course with HGF repairs ("we always change them sir" and make a nice little sum out of it!

[GT]

Excellent cheers, I think I've read that first check somewhere already - but it obviously slipped my mind :hit1:

Part of me just wants to get on with this now to actually start getting things done and applying some of this new-found knowledge. :D

I'm glad I don't have to move the thermostat, and its nice to know I could save some money by re-using the bolts as well :)

[620Turbo]

Excellent cheers, I think I've read that first check somewhere already - but it obviously slipped my mind :hit1:

Part of me just wants to get on with this now to actually start getting things done and applying some of this new-found knowledge. :D

I'm glad I don't have to move the thermostat, and its nice to know I could save some money by re-using the bolts as well :)

Heh heh. I still reckon you should be able to get it done for around £100, maybe a bit more now. Just be really methodical with everything.

Get a load of containers to put all the nuts and bolts in, or by the end of it, you will have no idea what goes where. Rover like their 8mm black bolts, but use different thread lengths.

[GT]

I already have a few pots of Rover bolts for everything from wings to interior trim!

We took apart a dashboard once, all with a single socket peice and a screwdriver, so I can what ya mean about needing to recall where it all came from :D

Factoring in things like oil and a few new items like the cam locking and timing tools... I think I've easilly gone over the £100, but the important thing is that I dont think I'll spend more on this than I did on the car itself :)

[ZS]

I already have a few pots of Rover bolts for everything from wings to interior trim!

We took apart a dashboard once, all with a single socket peice and a screwdriver, so I can what ya mean about needing to recall where it all came from :D

Factoring in things like oil and a few new items like the cam locking and timing tools... I think I've easilly gone over the £100, but the important thing is that I dont think I'll spend more on this than I did on the car itself :)

Plus when we do the other HGF we won't need to spend as much ;)

[GT]

Thats getting ambitious now! Its not even a Rover :hit1:

(EDIT : He's reffering to a VW Lupo!)

[620Turbo]

Plus when we do the other HGF we won't need to spend as much ;)

What other HGF. You buying summink else or has one of your motors started leaking?

To be honest, the VVC is a bit of a pig to start with. It is all about being slow and methodical. You may have issues getting the downpipe off and will need a oxy torch to heat the bolts and a 6 sided socket.

[GT]

Someone phoned me up this morning who owns a VW Lupo, describing a coffee coloured creamy substance in their filler cap... :rolleyes:

I've just seen a price to a cam timing kit - £150, is this something I need? Or do I just need the locking tool for ~£5

[620Turbo]

Someone phoned me up this morning who owns a VW Lupo, describing a coffee coloured creamy substance in their filler cap... :rolleyes:

I've just seen a price to a cam timing kit - £150, is this something I need? Or do I just need the locking tool for ~£5

Rob, I am not 100% sure whether the normal K locking tool works on the VVC.

By the way, I would be suprised if that is HGF on the VW, they don't seem to have that, although if their engines are used on short journeys they get a lot of mayo in the oil cap (condensation)

[620Turbo]

http://www.shacktools.com/sykes-cam-locking-tool-rover-k-16-dohc-p-1611.html?osCsid=5d1e7d2aafaa3540f236463d399edafc

This is what I have which works on the non VVC's. Perhaps this will work on the VVC too.

[CaiosG60 PWR]

Hello,
I saw this thread as a referrer on my website stats for shacktools.com. I'm a massive car forum nut and can be found wasting hours of time on piston heads, dubforce and the-corrado forum. Therefore I'm always happy to give forum discounts to people.

Anyway here's a discount code for you that will give you 5% off the above item at shacktools.com discount code is ROVERFORUM

If you have any problems with the code let me know and I'll sort it.

Thanks

Thomas Cai Hughes
-------------------
ShackTools.com

[620Turbo]

Hello,
I saw this thread as a referrer on my website stats for shacktools.com. I'm a massive car forum nut and can be found wasting hours of time on piston heads, dubforce and the-corrado forum. Therefore I'm always happy to give forum discounts to people.

Anyway here's a discount code for you that will give you 5% off the above item at shacktools.com discount code is ROVERFORUM

If you have any problems with the code let me know and I'll sort it.

Thanks

Thomas Cai Hughes
-------------------
ShackTools.com

WTF? Was that automated Rob? Very clever if it was.

[GT]

Nothing to do with me... :confused:

Damn quick responce though - 15mins between posts and that included the time it took for me to see the link, follow it, him to check his stats, go through our sign up process, including email confirmation and then post! :D

Unfortunatley, I think you'll find the postal system will work too slowly for me being able to start this in 48hours time :o

Welcome to brit-cars.com though ;) :drink2:

[620Turbo]

Nothing to do with me... :confused:

Damn quick responce though - 15mins between posts and that included the time it took for me to see the link, follow it, him to check his stats, go through our sign up process, including email confirmation and then post! :D

Unfortunatley, I think you'll find the postal system will work too slowly for me being able to start this in 48hours time :o

But how did he know to come back here??? Are you natting through the same address as the web server so he can run a reverse look up and see brit cars as the address?

[ZS]

But how did he know to come back here??? Are you natting through the same address as the web server so he can run a reverse look up and see brit cars as the address?

No he's seen that this site has linked to him... got some nifty stats software by the looks of it... and then he has logged on here and posted :D

[CaiosG60 PWR]

Hello,
I'm not a clever posting bot! :lol: I just happened to check my "who online" page in the admin section of my webiste and saw a referrer address which I followed here. When you visit a website you leave a small trail behind you, for example when you click a link in google search engine the site you go to knows what you search for in google to find them. Scary hey? ;-)

I dont think I could get it out to you in 48 hours sorry. I only carry really popular items in stock like sockets, screwdrivers, etc. I couldnt possibly keep all the cam setting tools in stock as there are to many and there too specialist. I probably wont sell more than one of these a year or even two years. Nevertheless, I could get it sent out by Friday 1st class recorded so would be with you Saturday morning as long as the royal mail are on the ball.

I could also contact my technical support at Sykes and chek if it will work with VVC if you like?

[ZS]

I could also contact my technical support at Sykes and chek if it will work with VVC if you like?

If you could check if it works with the VVC then that would be good!

[CaiosG60 PWR]

VVC, variable valve?

[ZS]

VVC, variable valve?

Yup variable valve control... or very Very Complicated!

[GT]

http://www.shacktools.com/sykes-cam-locking-tool-rover-k-16-dohc-p-1611.html?osCsid=5d1e7d2aafaa3540f236463d399edafc

This is what I have which works on the non VVC's. Perhaps this will work on the VVC too.

I assume I will need 2 of these tools for the VVC?

[620Turbo]

I assume I will need 2 of these tools for the VVC?

If they fit. . . . . . . . . it would be very useful to have one or two if they fit. You can do it without them, but with the VVC, this could get confusing as you have 3 cams and I reckon if you got it too far out of time, it would be like doing a Rubix cube trying to get it back to timed position again.

[GT]

For the price, I may as well get 2 in the hope they will fit!

I hope CaiosG60 PWR is not offended if I pop down to my local motor factors after work, though ;)

[620Turbo]

For the price, I may as well get 2 in the hope they will fit!

I hope CaiosG60 PWR is not offended if I pop down to my local motor factors after work, though ;)

Nah, I may use him to buy some stuff in future anyway.

[CaiosG60 PWR]

No probs not at all, sometimes you need something ASAP. When I'm doing a job and I need a "X" size spanner even I pop down halfrauds if I dont have it in stock.

Still waiting on a reply from the Sykes technical department.

I'll post as soon as I know the answer about the VVC, but I'm going for a pint now with an old mate who's back from away. ;-) :-)

If you want anything in the future contact me and I'll sort you out a discount coupon. Seams a pritty sorted forum this, well done, good response lads.

I'll have to post my motor up here for you guys to gander at. Its not a brit car so I'm probably a traitor! :lol: I drive a mk2 Golf G60, thats supercharged for those who have never heard of a G60. Its been rolling roaded at 216bhp which is pritty mad in a 2WD 15 year old Golf. Keep it standard looking apart from loads of engine mods and some BBS split rims with polished rims.

Sorry if this threads going a bit off topic but I'll be back with some technical info soon.

[620Turbo]

Post up a thread, I will be interested to see!

[GT]

Indeed post away ;)

With regards to the cam locking tool... I tried my local Unipart authorised garage, who use our local motor factors.

My local motor factors don't deal with Rover tools... said try my local dealer!

1 of my local dealers (White Rose, Petersfield) has changed to Nissan and can't help...

The second of my local dealers (Pooles, Fareham), has been taken over by a third and is now another branch for their Renault franchise (Seward, Fareham), and cant help...

This 3rd dealer (Seward, Portsmouth), has moved everything to yet another branch and converted to Renault. This relocated branch (Seward, Havant) can't help me and tell me they can't source it from X-Part either.

My 4th option (and 5th stop) is Rowes Chichester, who just does accident repair, tyres and a few used cars. They suggetsed I try stop number 6...

...Harwoods Jaguar & Aston Martin, Chichester! Who have a Land Rover and MG-Rover center out back of their dealership. They cannot supply one either as all MG-Rover tools were apparantly supplied by a company called 'SPX' in Salisbury, who they have not had contact with for many years and suspect may now be based in Germany :confused:

Anyway, I have a number for them and it just goes to an answer machine now as its out of hours, but it is for SPX, so will try again tomorrow.

Seward Havant did suggest the '120' and VVC variants of the 1.8 K-series do not use the same locking tools? However, I'll take anything they say with a pinch of salt!

So I've come up to a bit of a dead-end on that front :o

[CaiosG60 PWR]

Sounds a bit of a nightmare! and I though parts guys at VAG where idiots!!

I'll find out what’s the deal with this VVC and Sykes for you tomorrow.

With out reading all this post (but its started about A/C didn’t it?!) so you need to reset the timing after changing the head, right? Can you not do it the old fashion way, with some chalk marks? Have you asked your local mechanic his opinion on the matter? Often these jobs are a lot easier with the correct timing tools of course, but I know a guy who thinks there are all ********. Ask a local mechanic who you trust and who is an independent how he would approach the job. Often when you’re not on the clock, so to speak, these jobs a possible with a bit of pro knowledge and experience. After all not every garage in the world can afford every special too and most have worked out a methodical way of doing things without it. An example would be that I sell a tool for resetting the service lights on VAG cars and if I’m honest with you, anyone can reset a service light on a VAG car by knowing the secret combination to pushing buttons/stalks on the dash.

In the mean time I’ll try find out from Sykes, but have a chat with your local independent garage and see what he says. (**** I’m talking myself out of a sale, but honest advice and input is what we try to be about at shacktools)

--------------------
www.shacktools.com

[CaiosG60 PWR]

Nice one, I'll get some mint picture of my car up here later. Nice one lads, glad to see you’re interested in other car from your own. That’s exactly what I like about the Piston Heads forum there owners on there of race prepped XR2’s to Mclaren F1’s all talking together about the love of motoring.

[MartinW]

Article in current Retro Cars magazine about G-Lader superchargers! Nice idea, but apparently too clever like rotary engines!

[GT]

For those how have been following... (its wandered to changing an HGF on a Rover Vi) I just tried the advice of trying to get it to tick over... and err... *expletive deleted*!

Battery charged fine... but it doesnt turn over at all.. in fact it grates and grinds and sounds nothing like any turnover I have ever heard :(

The closest analagy I can give for sound is like trying to start the engine with the key whilst is already running, combined with trying to put the car into reverse with the gears still spinning forwards :o

Maybe I wont need this locking tool afterall... but a whole new engine :cry:

[CaiosG60 PWR]

**** that doesnt sound good......STOP, before you damage something. Wait untill you know what your doing for sure.

Yeah the g-lader was a great idea but they do break. I blew mine recently and a new one from VAG is £2500. Nevertheless they are great cars. 160bhp standard then a remap and a smalller pulley and your near 200BHP for about £100. VW are at it again with that new engine a supercharger and a turbo. 200+bhp from a 1 litre and 50mpg, they new what they where trying to achieve with the g-lader.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

it is likely the starter, which is Magnetti Marelli cack. I have lost count of the amount of times I have left a (well worn late 90's K powered) car for a few days and come back to it to find it doesn't work/engage properly. If the car was running before and you heard it, my money would be on a sticking starter. Give it a wack with a jack handle or something.

You should DEFO be able to get the tool I linked to from our VW friends website in a good motor factors. I know my mate got one from Camberley Motor Factors in Sussex. Phone around some factors, not necessarily Rover. I have seen it in a Draper packet before now. If it fits in between the VVC wheels it will really help you and simplify the job for you IMO.

Very common in factors cos of the amount of K series HGF, lots of them get sold ;)

[620Turbo]

Sounds a bit of a nightmare! and I though parts guys at VAG where idiots!!

I'll find out what’s the deal with this VVC and Sykes for you tomorrow.

With out reading all this post (but its started about A/C didn’t it?!) so you need to reset the timing after changing the head, right? Can you not do it the old fashion way, with some chalk marks? Have you asked your local mechanic his opinion on the matter? Often these jobs are a lot easier with the correct timing tools of course, but I know a guy who thinks there are all ********. Ask a local mechanic who you trust and who is an independent how he would approach the job. Often when you’re not on the clock, so to speak, these jobs a possible with a bit of pro knowledge and experience. After all not every garage in the world can afford every special too and most have worked out a methodical way of doing things without it. An example would be that I sell a tool for resetting the service lights on VAG cars and if I’m honest with you, anyone can reset a service light on a VAG car by knowing the secret combination to pushing buttons/stalks on the dash.

In the mean time I’ll try find out from Sykes, but have a chat with your local independent garage and see what he says. (**** I’m talking myself out of a sale, but honest advice and input is what we try to be about at shacktools)

--------------------
www.shacktools.com

Caios, The VVC is a bit of a pain as it is complex. You lock the crank at 90 deg BTDC, which means all the pistons are the same height, 2 on their way up and 2 on their way down - this is then a safe position so no valves can touch the pistons when you are playing with the head.

The VVC has 3 camshafts, 2 inlet and 1 exhaust. 1 inlet cam drives the valves on number 1 and 2 and the other drives 3 and 4. It can therefore be a pain if you get them out of sync to get it back again. There is a cambelt on the front of the engine, from the crank up via the water pump and tensioner to the inlet and exhaust cam. The other inlet cam is driven by a "synchronous belt" on the rear of the engine, simply between the "other end" of exhaust cam and the second inlet cam, (above the gearbox) if that makes sense.

It is probably sensible to lock the whole thing up knowing that when you put it back on, it will need only minor adjustment of the wheels with the small amount of play the locking tools allow to get the belt back on and the engine be timed up and not a tooth out anywhere. :)

[CaiosG60 PWR]

Right, that does sounds complicated to say the least! :lol:

Bye the way I do all Draper as well, so if you want Draper I'll get that sent out quicker than anybody else and for a better price. Just let me know by either cai@shacktools.com or 0845 009 4082.

If you suspect the starter, can you not see if the fly wheel is turning through the hole in the bell housing for finding TDC?

[620Turbo]

Right, that does sounds complicated to say the least! :lol:

Bye the way I do all Draper as well, so if you want Draper I'll get that sent out quicker than anybody else and for a better price. Just let me know by either cai@shacktools.com or 0845 009 4082.

If you suspect the starter, can you not see if the fly wheel is turning through the hole in the bell housing for finding TDC?

No hole in bellhousing IIRC, just a tiny one a drill bit can fir through to lock the wheel on an older engine (T series). Just have to watch the crank pulley.

[King Minger]

Rob, you seem to have missed out Viking in your list of local area dealers? have they stopped an'all?

As I've also mentioned before is HAS in Poole. I need to go back down there at some point to get my service book stamped....

[Misfit]

Viking is still going as an XPart stockist and service centre. Call them on 01489 780000 I'm sure they will be able to help as they seem to be the best in the area IMHO.

[MaddAussie]

Rob, you seem to have missed out Viking in your list of local area dealers? have they stopped an'all?

As I've also mentioned before is HAS in Poole. I need to go back down there at some point to get my service book stamped....
Yeah ive been banging on to Rob about Trevor as well :D

[GT]

I havn't forgotten Viking or HAS, but for the sake of a < £5 tool, I wanted to just get it quickly and locally. I only finished at 16:30 yesterday and kept trying until 18:00, when everywhere closed.

Viking and HAS are on my list for today, but would rather not have to travel over an hour each way to get the tool if I don't have too :D

Petrol costs alone, put the tool's price up to about £30 :eek:

Apparantly its not an X-Part product, which is why they've all come up negative...

[GT]

Rob,

it is likely the starter, which is Magnetti Marelli cack. I have lost count of the amount of times I have left a (well worn late 90's K powered) car for a few days and come back to it to find it doesn't work/engage properly. If the car was running before and you heard it, my money would be on a sticking starter. Give it a wack with a jack handle or something.

You should DEFO be able to get the tool I linked to from our VW friends website in a good motor factors. I know my mate got one from Camberley Motor Factors in Sussex. Phone around some factors, not necessarily Rover. I have seen it in a Draper packet before now. If it fits in between the VVC wheels it will really help you and simplify the job for you IMO.

Very common in factors cos of the amount of K series HGF, lots of them get sold ;)

Strange you should mention Camberley, because thats cropped up in a conversation I had last night, too (offline). I'll see if I can contact them today, but I dont finsih until 17:30 and tomorrow is Good Friday :hit1:

I hope it is the starter motor, its difficult to work out where the noise waas comming from whilst sat inside the cabin. It was a truely awful noise though!

Right now, I'm thinking of dropping the 1 & 4 from my avatar! :lol:

[GT]

I'll find out what’s the deal with this VVC and Sykes for you tomorrow.

Thanks :drink2:

With out reading all this post (but its started about A/C didn’t it?!) so you need to reset the timing after changing the head, right? Can you not do it the old fashion way, with some chalk marks?

I've recently come into possesion of a new car for very little money... my daily drive right now is an MG ZR and I have just picked up a Rover 200 Vi. The thread started as a comparisson of the 2 engine bays and my (lack of) knowledge over some of the components... which eventually came about to the fact that the Vi has a head gasket failure, so I am looking to repair it myself, rather than spend stupid money at a garage to do it for me.

Nothing has been taken apart yet, but looking to do it over the 4 day BH weekend! :)

[620Turbo]

Yeah Rob, dealers or ex dealers will not sell this part. You need to get it through an independant motor spares shop or a factors, etc.

Camberley auto factors have a few places all over the gaff. Top of the M3 there are a couple I think. I am sure if you call around to a few motor spares shops, they will have what you want closer to home. You know the sort of place I mean. Batteries outside and number plates in the window, etc.

[GT]

Got a Camberley factors about 5 miles away... will try them later (maybe lunch-time!)

[620Turbo]

they can probably order it in from another factors.

say that they DO sell them, not do you sell them!

[620Turbo]

after all this it probably won't work for the VVC/ / / /

[ZS]

after all this it probably won't work for the VVC/ / / /

There is one for sale on ebay and listed as works for the VVC....

[GT]

This eBay auction, suggests that it does - check out the number of bids and the price, though! :eek:
eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-Rover-16v-K-Series-Camshaft-timing-tool-inc-VVC_W0QQitemZ4629691216QQcategoryZ10414QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

I'll say that I have a good friend who has already picked one up :D

[620Turbo]

excellent!

You can get it cheaper than that I am sure. That is mugs over bidding IMO.

Good news that it works for the VVC. Not sure if it will work for the rear sync belt, but it is easy to get the cover off that and try it Rob before you buy another 1!

Either that or buy it for £5 and sell it on flea bay for £10 if it does not work.

[Mat C]

Rob, wouldn't you have been better off just getting the pro's to do this ? After all, i got my engine practicaly rebuilt and bored out to a 1.9 for £850 with peace of mind included, courtesy car and no hassle !

[GT]

£850? fork that for a laugh, I got the car for next to nothing, so not wasting that much money on it. :lol:

Besides, I dont have that much money :(

By the end of all this, I recon I will have spent a mere £150 and learnt how to do it myself, teach a man how to fish and all that :D

If it all goes well, then I'd have spent less than 50% what you paid for your repair, on my car and repair :D

Granted it wont be a ZR with a 1.9VVC pushing out 190bhp, but it will be a good runabout 1.8VVC with approx 140bhp... leaving me with the chance to pay off the ZR's finance and come away with a 40bhp upgrade and no debt!

If it does work... anyone who wants an HGF repair done for £850, they're welcome to come my way (joke!):D

I dont mind the hassle, in fact its poor 620Turbo who is getting the hassle, I dont have a lot else to do with my time, and its nice to learn something new. £850 is a very good price considering it got the 1.9 upgrade in the process, most around here want about £800 just for the simple repair.

If it doesnt work, then I tried and I'll either get a pro to do it or I'll get rid of the car... I dont need a courtesy car as I'm still using the ZR as my daily driver. This is just a cheap replacement, thats turned into a bit of a fun project :D

[Tony]

Rob, this data sheet seems to confirm the same tool will both standard and VVC engines.
http://www.sealey-tools.co.uk/instructions/VS171.PDF

And there are some good pics of where to stick the tool here.
http://www.mgfcar.de/k_engine/cambelt_mpi.htm

Guru, Roger Parkers guide...
http://www.mgfcar.de/hgf/change.htm

[King Minger]

Granted, HAS is a bit on the far side.... even for me, working in ringwood.... but Viking is only hedge end.... also, I pass Hedge end every day, so if you get stuck for anything really local, I can always pick it up. TBH, I didn't realise this was over a £5 tool. was thinking more likely a £50-100 one.

[620Turbo]

Granted, HAS is a bit on the far side.... even for me, working in ringwood.... but Viking is only hedge end.... also, I pass Hedge end every day, so if you get stuck for anything really local, I can always pick it up. TBH, I didn't realise this was over a £5 tool. was thinking more likely a £50-100 one.

nah, it probably costs around 20p to make it!!

In fact, you could easily fabricate something if you were any good with metal or wood.

[GT]

That may have to be an option, as I've tried Camberley who have '1' on their system... but cant find it. Followed a trail of 3 more places in the area, all negative. :o

[Tony]

What about chewing up a few sticks of gum and wacking them in there the night before. By the morning it'll be set hard. All you need to do then is break if off when your finished. ;)

[GT]

someone else has mentioned cable-ties :lol:

[GT]

I've got one reserved on a shelf for me :D :D :D

[620Turbo]

They haven't got another one have they in case you find out it needs it for the rear sync belt too!

Not too far I hope.

Just one more time - GET THE MATING SURFACES 100% SORTED, WITH NO IMPERFECTIONS - MAY TAKE YOU A COUPLE OF HOURS OR SO, but preperation can be the key.

Especially if you are using the MLS gasket! Once it is sealed, you are sorted, but it needs much tighter tolerances to seal initially.

Do you have a feeler guage to check the liner tolerances? If they fail, you need to use the MGR Mk3 or Payen.

[GT]

Got it, not too far away, Camberley Auto Factors came through in the end with one at another branch!

Not sure if Sam has a feeler guage, I should have checked whilst I was there :hit1:

Any suggestions for cleaning solutions? Should I be buying shares in Fairy as well as getting loads of kitchen towels? :lol:

[620Turbo]

Got it, not too far away, Camberley Auto Factors came through in the end with one at another branch!

Not sure if Sam has a feeler guage, I should have checked whilst I was there :hit1:

Any suggestions for cleaning solutions? Should I be buying shares in Fairy as well as getting loads of kitchen towels? :lol:

No suggestions really, I use a scraper, which is a razor blade in a plastic holder, available from DIY stores. Takes a fair amount of time as if you try and rush it you can dig into the ally which you DO NOT want to do.

With a lot of work, you will get both the head face and block face very clean and smooth.

Also, when you take the head off, don't forget to have two small bits of wood to put either end so you do not put the head on the ground:

a: cos it can damage it
b: valves are protruding below the head surface, so if you put it down, you may bend a valve!

[620Turbo]

For actual cleaning solutions, petrol/meths works quite well.

I have used wire wool on occasion but you need to be careful as this can be slightly abrasive so use it gently and watch what you are doing.

[GT]

Cheers, will be starting this up after lunch, so heres hoping it goes well :lol:

:drink2:

[620Turbo]

Hehheheh. Not really got the whether for it mate.

You know how to get the crank pulley off right?

[King Minger]

This eBay auction, suggests that it does - check out the number of bids and the price, though! :eek:
eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-Rover-16v-K-Series-Camshaft-timing-tool-inc-VVC_W0QQitemZ4629691216QQcategoryZ10414QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

:lol2: that's Gas-Axe on XPF.....

[GT]

I wouldn't say it was blisetering sunshine here, but it is bright and dry :D

We'll possibley take the bumper off completely to improve access...

What I've got as a guide is (summarized):

Align timing markings, remove power steering pump and/or alternator belts as applicable...

Keep car in 5th to prevent movement of the crankshaft,

unscrew the pulley bolt, keeping track of the washer,

remove pulley from crankshaft.

Does that sound about right?

I'm hoping things will all make more sence once I can see it properly :D

[GT]

:lol2: that's Gas-Axe on XPF.....

What a rip-off merchant! :D

Best price I found was about £1.36 from a tool store in Southampton, but they didnt keep it in stock and would have had to order it for me.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

Not sure you will need to take off the bumper to be honest, here is what I do, but this is not for a VVC, so I have guessed the VVC bits:

Start engine and run car for a few seconds and drive onto two decent ramps - starting engine gets vacuum into master cylinder reservoir.

Drain coolant somewhere out the way before putting the car on ramps, so you don't have to lie in the muck!!

Take off any undertrays.

Take out airbox assembly - only 2 8mm bolts holding onto side of battery tray. Should have Rover pinch clip holding it onto throttle, if jubilee clip be careful when doing it back up or you may warp plastic throttle housing easily.

Undo 2 VVC connectors, coolant temp thermistor and guage thermistor (next to each other at coolant outlet elbow) any other junk and try to move harness out of way, noting where it clips and runs for reassembly. Unplug injector multiplug in this process and air inlet temperature sensor, throttle pot, idle speed stepper motor, etc.

Take off throttle cable and hang it out the way over the back.

Take off PAS belt and alternator belt. Depends on age, some are a sprung tensioner which is easy and others are an adjuster. For the PAS bolt you will need a swan neck spanner to get the centre bolt of the idler pulley slackened enough so it will adjust. On the alternator, you will need to slacken off the top two mounting bolts so it will pivot.

Take off top cam belt covers - front and rear sync belt.

Rotate crankshaft with 6 sided impact socket and breaker bar until timing marks line up. On non VVC pulleys are marked, Inlet Exhaust and the arrows need to point at each other. When they are pointing, check the rear sync belt and this should be timed also. Put a blob of tipex at the timing point on all 4 pulleys so you know where you are. Use a ruler to do it so you get them spot on.

Get an assistant to sit in car and engage 5th and press firmly on the brakes - only press once as if you pump the pedal you will use the reservoir vacuum up. Using a lot of force, undo the single crank pulley bolt and crack it loose. Rotate crank to timed position once again, using pulley bolt, if you rotate crank pulley slowly, you will not do up the bolt again too much if that makes sense. Then when you get to the timed position, really quickly "jerk" the breaker bar/torque wrench backwards and you should be able to undo the bolt without moving the engine, if that makes sense.

This will mean you now have a timed up engine, with the crank pulley bolt undone!! Put in your timing locks (front and rear if possible!!) You may need to rotate the crank a little as it may have moved slightly, but after a few times you will be sorted.

Take off the crank pulley, bolt and washer and note the position of the two dots on the oil pump housing meaning all is tickety boo!! Mark this position against the oil pump housing with tip ex again or similar.

Remove engine mount and torsion bar assembly. Put trolley jack under sump, with a block of wood on top of it. You may want to do this earlier/later in the sequence, but you need the engine mount on when rotating the engine and obviously when undoing the crank bolt.

Undo cam belt tensioner centre bolt - special allen drive and a ratchet needed here. Be careful, you do not want to dick this bolt up or you will have grief!!! then undo the 8mm adjuuster bolt and push the tensioner to relive the tension. Do up the 8mm slightly to hold it at lax tension.

Take off cambelt nice and slowly, one person needs to edge it off the crank, while the other does it off the top two pulleys and the water pump - you cant just take it off one pulley, it needs to go on and come off square.

When you have the belt off, remove the tensioner centre bolt, tensioner assembly, the post the spring goes onto, and all the 8mm bolts securing the back of the timing cover to the head - you should be able to pull the timing cover back away from the head and nothing be secured - meaning you will be able to lift the head straight up!

Undo the two 8mm bolts securing the fuel supply to fuel rail, have a bit of tissue and pull the connector off square - so yuo don't damage the "o" ring if possible. Hook the fuel connector out of the way and plug it with something. I hook it over the fuel filter on the bulkhead.

Take off the cam covers in the order you should undo the bolts.

Undo exhaust manifold studs and any bodge retainer which connects the downpipe to the block or sump - so you are able to pull the manifold forwards by a couple of inches away from the head. If it will not pull, look under car and there may be a botch bracket as I have said.

Double check that the head is now a seperate unit, with nothing going to it.

Undo the head bolts in the specified order, noting where each one comes from so you can put it back from whence it came. You may need to undo the cam locks for this and move the cams slightly to get a couple of the bolts out. Remove the bolts and put the cams back to where they were and lock them again.

Remove each one gently.

Remove head - if the engine has had prior HGF (which it will have done IMO) the head will likely be on the steel dowels, so you may need a bit of force to remove it, but you don't want to yank it too much and damage anything.

Have the blocks ready to put the head on and remove the head with an assistant.

I have assumed you will be taking the head off with the inlet manifold in place, which should be OK with a Very Very Complex.

[GT]

Nice one :drink2: :D

You'll have to let me know how to thank you after all this!

[620Turbo]

Only thing I forgot is the breather pipes, which you can remove at the start. You know the ones that come off the cam covers and I cannot remember whether the VVC has the MAP sensor in the plenum or in the ECU. If it is in the ECU, you will have a MAP line going from the plenum to the ECU, which you need to take off.

Otherwise, the MAP sensor is located on the plenum somewhere and can be removed with the plenum/inlet manifold assemblt, you just need to disconnect the multiplug.

Don't forget to mark what plug goes where as it is VERY easy to mix up the two plugs on the VVC hydraulics and you will then have a rev limiter at 4000 RPM.

[GT]

That grinding noise is definatley not the starter motor... sounds like its comming from the VVC unit :o

[620Turbo]

That grinding noise is definatley not the starter motor... sounds like its comming from the VVC unit :o

Egghh? Have you got the engine running now?

Did you not say you had heard the engine running before and it was OK?

[GT]

Yes, I have heard the engine running fine when we collected it, but it came home on a flatbed (80miles) where we moved it onto the drive by hand :confused:

But no, it wont start, just crunches and grinds :o

We've just been moving it by hand :)

[620Turbo]

Oh dear.

Take off the two top cam covers and check the timing is OK and there is nothing like a bad/slipped belt.

Can you feel it compressing when you turn it over by hand? You should feel 4 good compression strokes over two revolutions of the crank.

You need to get it going really before you start working on it and commit yourself to spending money on it. I would think it likely that at that mileage there is a good possibility that the VVC units could be well past it.

You need to run the engine to see!!

[GT]

Sams just taking the covers off whilst I uploaded this....

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data/512/vvc-mech.jpg

[620Turbo]

WTF?

Is that mayo in the inlet?? It looks like there is tons of it. That could probably be why it is not starting.

[620Turbo]

Hmmmm,

I don't want you to start doing all this, get it back together and find the engine is finished though.

Those VVC mechs are defo weak and are known to "go" or "let go". The bearing going in them seems to be a common issue, so when you have both belt top covers off, try and wobble the drive wheel on the front and rear of the engine, driving their respective inlet cam. They connect directly to a VVC mech, so if they wobble about, the VVC mech bearing has likely had it.

http://www.rovercarhospital.co.uk/images/vvc_2camwheels.jpg

See the inlet wheel, with the mech "inside" the wheel. One of these either end of engine. Exhaust will be fine as directly bolted onto camshaft.

[GT]

Yup.... plenty of it in the inlet!

On the plus side... the smaller cam-cover (passenger side) looks fine, what we can see of the main cambelt looks OK too, although still the award bolt at the bottom to get off.

EDIT : Will give the wobble a go!

[620Turbo]

Yup.... plenty of it in the inlet!

On the plus side... the smaller cam-cover (passenger side) looks fine, what we can see of the main cambelt looks OK too, although still the award bolt at the bottom to get off.

The larger (10mm IIRC) bolt at the bottom of the top cam belt cover, you only need to undo a few turns and the belt cover pulls upwards out of it.

[GT]

Here are my 2 belts... they look OK to us, definatley no wobbling invovled, its all very taught!

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data/512/cambelt1.jpg

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/cambelt2.jpg

[620Turbo]

Good, probably the best time for you to tell will be when you have the belts off. You can then grab the inlet wheel with both hands and try and move it in and out at either side to check for play.

It looks fine. Are you gonna re-use the cambelts? Sometimes a reasonably test is whethere the belts have writing on them, if the writing is gone or faded, they need binning and new ones should be used.

Good sign is it does not look like the cam oil seals are pi55ing out oil, which would mean you having to take the head apart and specialist timing tools.

Hopefully just head off as one piece and back on as one piece then!

Maybe try and leave the rear sync belt on if this is possible.

[GT]

Excellent news.. and as for the grinding... it may yet be the start motor as We may have been looking at the wrong item :lol: :blush:

I was going to replace the cambelts as a matter of course given the mileage and the HGF. I figure that will at least mean I dont have to worry about it for another few thousand miles ;)

Might as well do it all whilst its in bits!

[620Turbo]

Excellent news.. and as for the grinding... it may yet be the start motor as We may have been looking at the wrong item :lol: :blush:

I was going to replace the cambelts as a matter of course given the mileage and the HGF. I figure that will at least mean I dont have to worry about it for another few thousand miles ;)

Might as well do it all whilst its in bits!

Indeed. You need to take the plate off to do the rear sync belt though.

[620Turbo]

Oh yeah, looking at that picture, it looks like you can forget using the locking tool for the rear sync belt. Have to be a "hand job" :D

Just make sure you get it all 100% timed before removing any belts!

From the pics, the timing marks are easy. The notches need to line up and face each other - use a ruler to get it near as damn it to spot on and then mark with paint/tip ex.

[GT]

Looks almost definatley the starter as you originally said... think we got the source wrong due to its location near the VVC!

Its not playing ball though :D

Oh well... we've got the air box, bumper etc off at the moment to give us more space. Looks like its had a small knock at the front as a few of the bolt-on bits are not as straight as they should be!

Doesnt appear to be any major damage though, nothing I cant fix by changing a few bolt-on items (like a headlamp!)

Some of the bolts on the bumper sheered without much effort though. Just as well I've got plenty of spares ;)

Have to say I'm rather enjoying this... but someone else seems to be enjoying it more :lol: I cant get a look in on the socket set :p

[Tootall]

Have to say I'm rather enjoying this... but someone else seems to be enjoying it more :lol: I cant get a look in on the socket set :p

Always more fun taking somebody elses car apart, hope you get it sorted soon Rob.

[620Turbo]

Looks almost definatley the starter as you originally said... think we got the source wrong due to its location near the VVC!

Its not playing ball though :D

Oh well... we've got the air box, bumper etc off at the moment to give us more space. Looks like its had a small knock at the front as a few of the bolt-on bits are not as straight as they should be!

Doesnt appear to be any major damage though, nothing I cant fix by changing a few bolt-on items (like a headlamp!)

Some of the bolts on the bumper sheered without much effort though. Just as well I've got plenty of spares ;)

Have to say I'm rather enjoying this... but someone else seems to be enjoying it more :lol: I cant get a look in on the socket set :p

Just be careful with the starter. That grinding noise is the starter not engaging properly with the flywheel and the teeth grinding on the flywheel teeth!!!

Carry on doing it and you will have a bit of flywheel with no teeth left!

[GT]

Thanks for the update... cant get anywhere with it :(

Hammer knocks dont seem to do anything, cant get it off either on the basis of replacing it.

So we're at an impass! Any bright ideas are welcomed, but I suspect it'll have to be tomorrow when I take this up again due to other commitments tonight!

[620Turbo]

Thanks for the update... cant get anywhere with it :(

Hammer knocks dont seem to do anything, cant get it off either on the basis of replacing it.

So we're at an impass! Any bright ideas are welcomed, but I suspect it'll have to be tomorrow when I take this up again due to other commitments tonight!

Rob, It is held on by two bolts IIRC. Right tools will get it off. You will need an extension bar and a torque wrench. Preferably a 6 sided socket so you don't knacker the head of the bolt if it is super tight.

I would just get the head off it and then have a go at the starter when you have more access!

[GT]

We got one of the bolts off.. the other was being just plain stubborn, even with a torque wrench, space is the issue to be able to turn the levers.

Nevermind, we'll tackle the head tomorrow :D

[620Turbo]

So what have you boys got done today then? Don't forget to take a load of photos.

Is it worth splitting this into a new thread Mr Admin?

[MaddAussie]

ohhh its like updates from a mission to the moon :D:D

[MartinW]

Fantastic, keep popping in to check latest posts!
Haven't you got anything better to do on your birthday, MA? Happy returns, btw!
Good luck boys! Can't wait to see this written up!

[Tootall]

Shame you guys did not have a webcam to keep us up todate with live feeds it would be like watching a live heart operation :flag2:

[King Minger]

MA birthday drinks..... left them having had the biggest Long Island Iced tea I've ever seen! and they wer off into bournemouth to carry on!

[GT]

So what have you boys got done today then? Don't forget to take a load of photos.

Is it worth splitting this into a new thread Mr Admin?

No-where near as much as I would have liked!!!

Manually pushed the car (that took some time!) off of its soft ground and onto the drive, got it up it in the air, airbox, bumper, headlamps all removed, some of the ancilleries disconnected, cam covers removed.

Tried for ages to get it to start, but to no avail. Head as of yet is untouched, will be going out in the morning to pick up some bits from LR and will tackle removal in the afternoon as per today.

I was hoping to have gotten the head off by now to start the cleaning process, but c'est la vie! :)

I have a few pictures, but due to a memory card failure, I'm stuck with an 8MB card, which only holds 11 pics at a time. 3 you've already seen on the thread, I've got some of the airbox removal, but its the head gasket repair itself that I will be being a little more detailed on :D

I'm not sure where to make the split now, this is a HUGE thread :lol:

I'll tackle that later on ;)

[GT]

Here's pictures of the new head gasket repair kit fresh from Land Rover!

Part1 :
http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//507/medium/Land_Rover_Head_Gasket1.jpg

Part 2:
http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//507/medium/Land_Rover_Head_Gasket2.jpg

It looks a lot different from pictures of the older design I have seen!

Now, to tackle getting the old one off :D

[King Minger]

good luck Rob!:D

[GT]

Thanks, but we're being rained off now for today :(

We managed to take the rocker cover off and check the insides, which show all the may thats in there.

I can see the cams now... which has raised the interesting question of cleaning around them, or should it just be left and cleaned out with a good oil flush once the head surface has been cleaned up and the whole lot put back together?

We've re-covered everything to keep the weather out, so no problems there, the rocker cover gasket is shot to peices though :lol:

[620Turbo]

Thanks, but we're being rained off now for today :(

We managed to take the rocker cover off and check the insides, which show all the may thats in there.

I can see the cams now... which has raised the interesting question of cleaning around them, or should it just be left and cleaned out with a good oil flush once the head surface has been cleaned up and the whole lot put back together?

We've re-covered everything to keep the weather out, so no problems there, the rocker cover gasket is shot to peices though :lol:

Rob, Leave it well alone. That gasket and shim looks be good. Did you get the new rail for the bottom?

The only thing is with the MLS gasket, the tolerances have got to be good and the surfaces 100% smooth. This will take you a good few hours and patience, IMO.

Cellulose thinners can be good for that too!

Are there instructions with the gasket on how to fit it and where the shim goes?

[GT]

Right, finally got those 2 belts off, although not quite as described, one of the PAS bolts was not accesable enough to get any of my tools in there to remove it, so by loosening the botl in the middle of the pulley enough, it gave enough slack to be able to remove it.

Yes, I have the rail, too. I just havnt got a picture of it yet :D

Now, time for the cambelt!

I have my socket set and breaker bar at the ready, but as looking at this picture, I have 1 marking on the left pulley and 2 marking on the right...

Someone has kindly marked one on each side with a matching red marker, so as best I can tell, these should be the two to line up! This also seems to work out for the markings on the other side...

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data/512/cambelt1.jpg

[GT]

OK, I've gotten them aligned, but its just me today and no-one else about - so cant be in the car and outside it at the same time for the next stage :lol:

Oh well... time to start cleaning some other bits :D

[gaz160]

Cheers for this excellent thread (all that's involved).........it's complelling reading and i'm learning more and more about the 'K' it's a shame i have an 1.8VAG engine:blush:

[Gav]

the TT had its Recall for the shoddy Fly wheel yet Gaz

[620Turbo]

Rob,

As I described, get the marks lined up spot on and get the crank pulley off - with the marks still lined up. (will take a few attempts to sort it, but you will get there)

You will then see two dots on the cam belt drive at the crank, these two dots should line up with a line in the oil pump casing, meaning the engine is in it's 90 deg BTDS postition (two pistons going down, two going up but all the exact same height).

Make sure the locking tool goes in at the top OK and then release the tensioner and remove the cambelt. (main one. you can probably leave the sync belt on for simplicity)

[GT]

I needed to go out and find a 22mm socket bit for the breaker-bar that fits the crank pulley - so I ventured down to halfrauds yet again to buy one - extortion! (But the only place I could find just the one bit!)

I went out after that, so will tackel it later in the week :)

[GT]

Thread now split from the original content about the ABS module and re-named to something more apropriate...

A bit of a mouthful, but I thought it was worth making it as search-friendly as possible :D

I've also made it a 'sticky' thread!

[620Turbo]

Heh heh, OK. How far have you actually got then.

Whats off and whats on?

[GT]

It doesnt seem like we've gotten that far... rusted bolts and the new for odd extra bits seem to keep delaying things.

Cam covers off, PAS and Alternator belts off, airbox off, bumper and headlamps off, airbox cleaned, throttle body cleaned, most of the heavilly 'gunked' bits of the engine bay cleaned up (not just HGF gunk), including all the undertray's etc that are also removed...

Plugs, leads etc also out, although I put the battery back in to keep the car locked and alarmed over-night :)

Rocker cover has been removed to see whats inside, rocker cover gasket needs junking, but its all in place for now to keep stuff from getting in whilst its standing.

Next step is to get the crankshaft pulley off, which involved another trip out to get a 22mm socket that would fit the breaker bar!

Once the pulley is off, the cover should be a doddle, then I can line it up, get the cambelt off and finally start making some progress!

I've also managed to source a new thermostat, oil filter, the HGF repair kit and I think all the gaskets! I have not yet picked up a new cambelt though... still on the to-do list, but doesnt seem like much of a rush, given that the old ones not off yet :D

Still not sure what I'm going to do about the starter motor though :o

[620Turbo]

It doesnt seem like we've gotten that far... rusted bolts and the new for odd extra bits seem to keep delaying things.

Cam covers off, PAS and Alternator belts off, airbox off, bumper and headlamps off, airbox cleaned, throttle body cleaned, most of the heavilly 'gunked' bits of the engine bay cleaned up (not just HGF gunk), including all the undertray's etc that are also removed...

Plugs, leads etc also out, although I put the battery back in to keep the car locked and alarmed over-night :)

Rocker cover has been removed to see whats inside, rocker cover gasket needs junking, but its all in place for now to keep stuff from getting in whilst its standing.

Next step is to get the crankshaft pulley off, which involved another trip out to get a 22mm socket that would fit the breaker bar!

Once the pulley is off, the cover should be a doddle, then I can line it up, get the cambelt off and finally start making some progress!

I've also managed to source a new thermostat, oil filter, the HGF repair kit and I think all the gaskets! I have not yet picked up a new cambelt though... still on the to-do list, but doesnt seem like much of a rush, given that the old ones not off yet :D

Still not sure what I'm going to do about the starter motor though :o

Starter motor, I would take it off, degunk it and lube it up. You can test it by running a lead to it from the battery (jump leads) and then grounding it with your foot on it. Only 12v so nothing to worry about. You are looking for the pinion to lurch out and spin. Check the pinion teeth are not knackered too. You may be able to clean it up, get it working and save yourself some cash.

You should be able to get it off when you have the head off as you will have better access - provided you have not rounded any bolts.

You know when you have cracked the nut loose on the crank pulley, you slowly turn the crank pulley (thus doing it up again slightly) til you get it times up, then when you have it in postion, quickly undo it with a jerk and the crank will not move, you then have the crank pulley off and the engine in the timed positon!!

[GT]

Just waiting for the apropriate time to get the crankshaft done, being back to work now has limited time during the week :o

The bolts should be OK on the starter motor, but thanks for the tips, I'll give that a go once we get in. :D

[ZS]

Rob, Leave it well alone.

So once one has done the gasket change and put the engine back together, does one then refill the enigne with oil and leave it at that? or do we need to use an engine flush to clean it?

Fill with oil then Change after 3000 miles someone said to me... ??

[620Turbo]

So once one has done the gasket change and put the engine back together, does one then refill the enigne with oil and leave it at that? or do we need to use an engine flush to clean it?

Fill with oil then Change after 3000 miles someone said to me... ??

Errrm, I guess it depends on how much mayo there is in the engine. I used to use flushes but have been warned off them, especially on older cars.

You are gonna have the sump off to fit the new oil rail, so will be able to clean this out when you have it off and you may find some sludge and muck in here at this mileage.

I personally would only risk flushing it if it is covered with cack (mayo) in the engine and you can see it all around the place. Otherwise I would do the fill it with cheap oil and then drop it after 1000 miles or so.

The flush I have used before is in a 5 litre green can and made by Comma. Available from most factors - camberleys will probably have it!

HTH.

[GT]

Plenty of mayo :D

I've finally managed to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off, following some inginueity and rachet extentions!

Then I removed the lower cambelt cover, and checked the allignment of the crankshaft sprocket, which is nicely aligned with the rest :D

Now, onto the tensioner-pulley bolt, I've had to go out and source yet another socket set adaptor as the allen-key set I had doesnt fit in the space particuarlly well! :)

When the weather improves I'll tackle this, then onto removing the cambelt itself :D

Its taken far longer than I had hoped, but poor weather and a busy schedule have kept me from progressing further :o

[King Minger]

ah the infamous time hoover.....

whenever you expect stuff to take X amount of time and it always takes several times as long....

most of my projects do that..... especially where PC's are involved

[byron]

Don't put an engine flush into the engine they are bad news they remove all the protective coatings from the engine,just buy some cheapish oil run it for about 1500miles and drop it get some good 10w/40 oil and it will be fine.

[GT]

I've already got a few litres of Tesco's special to do just that - cost me about £3 :lol:

[GT]

Undo cam belt tensioner centre bolt - special allen drive and a ratchet needed here. Be careful, you do not want to dick this bolt up or you will have grief!!! then undo the 8mm adjuuster bolt and push the tensioner to relive the tension. Do up the 8mm slightly to hold it at lax tension.

Anyone got any bright ideas how to get this bolt off?

I've got the right size allen drive bit, it fits perfectly (8mm) and I can get my ractchet in there too... but damned if I can even budge it!

Unfortunatley, not enough space for the breaker bar, so I can't use that:o

[byron]

Rob you might aswell take the engine out as you have stripped it,as for the 8mm ak you will need a half inch drive power bar or an 8mm ak and put a bar on the end and pull.

[GT]

I dont have the facilities to remove the engine... no crane, no indoor environment etc

I have a 1/2 inch breaker bar, but the only allen drive I can find comes in 3/8. I also have the adapter to convert between the 2 sizes and can fit the allen drive onto the breaker bar, but then I dont have enough width between the allen bolt and the side of the engine bay to fit the peice inside. :(

I've gotten this far, there must be some kind of solution?

The best I can think of right now is to get the old WD40 and pray!

[byron]

Rob you will need to get an half inch drive 8mm AK and then you will get it off.

[Tony]

How about an 8mm Allen Key with a length of tube slipped over it to give more leverage?

[GT]

Well, the 9 places I've tried didn't have a 1/2 socket fit for any of their allen drives. :(

...but a last moment thought lead me to enquire about a 3/8 breaker bar instead, and huzzah!

It fits and is much better chance of the original setup - fingers crossed!

Thanks to you both for your suggestions :drink2:

[GT]

Tension pulley and assembly are removed, the cambelt is off the cogs (but engine mount is still attatched, so not completely removed).

Then came the logn arduous task of getting the bolts fromt he exhaust manifold off - right pain they were and needed some deep sockets, a wire brush, some WD40 and a breaker bar!

They're off now, but they came off by unscrewing the bolts from the head, and not removing the nuts from the bolts, I'll be on the lookout for some new ones!

Exhaust mani gasket is rust-welded to the cylinder head, so that'll take some cleaning to get it off, but I guess the good news is that I think I'm ready to work on the head bolts now!

But as we're in the remaining hour of daylight for the day, I've decided to pack up and leave it for tomorrow when I can tackle removal and start the cleaning process! :D

[byron]

Did you get it undone young man your fingers are faster than mine

[GT]

Just a good bit of timing ;)

Nice to know your thoughts were with me! :D

Its nice to see some progress being made at last, I am far from an expert at doing this. But I am learning all the time and with various odd shaped and sized tools being gathered I hope that if nothing else I'll be able to work on the ancilleries a lot easier now than I could have done a month ago.

[byron]

Rob you are going to change the water pump arn't you been as the engine is stripped,preventen is better than cure and it saves taking the belt off again for 60k.

[Tootall]

A good call from Bryon a friend of mine did a cambelt change on his R200 a few years ago, the next weekend the waterpump sprung a little leak so he had to do it all again.
Gald its all going to plan Rob you will soon be racing around in your new toy knowing that you did all the hard work yourself (with a bit of help).

[GT]

A water pump is part of the plan, although I have not yet sourced one. :)

I've also got the new oil rail, a ton of gaskets, oil filter, thermostat, HT leads... need to get some spark plugs, probably a new battery at some point.

Then there is the starter motor to fix :rolleyes:

This is taking a lot longer than I had hoped, and weather for the bank holiday is once again looking grim, so I can only hope I can at least get th head off and protect the rest so that I can get on with the cleaning inside the garage :D

But, I'll do as much as I can whilst I'm taking it apart, as you say it'll save me a lot of time and effort overall! I'm also cleaning the years of gunk off of as much as I can as well, to try and make sure this is 1 Vi that doesnt bite the dust just yet ;)

[MartinW]

I haven't been paying as much attention to this thread for the moment, but well done Rob! By the way, the glycol in the antifreeze will form very hard, abrasive oil balls in the 5-40µm size range which can block filters and oil ways.
Use a cheaper oil initially as a flush and get the engine warmed up and run for maybe 10-20 miles at best to circulate. Then drain it, and refill with more expensive oil and run for maybe 500 miles. Then switch to a quality oil.
The cheap oils will not have th edetergent to remove older deposits but will hopefully remove residual coolant - then the more expensive oils with better detergents will start to clean out galleries later. Monitor oil level carefully and also check the colour and do a blotter paper spot test to see if it is ok.

[Tony]

do a blotter paper spot test to see if it is ok.
Martin, probably something for another thread, but can you explain what this is and how to interpret the results.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

Keep going mate. You were lucky with that tensioner centre allen bolt. . . I thought as I was catching up with the thread that you were gonna strip the head of it and that is a pig when you have done that!!!

I take it the engine is timed up 100%??

[GT]

Thanks for the words of encouragement! :blush:

Everything seems lined up alright from the outside (markings on both front and rear sprockets aligned, crankshaft pulley (cog) double-dots lined up with casing...) but today I've come to tackle the big one - the head bolts!!

Well, I have one part of the cam carrier on each the inlet and exhaust, that is blocking 100% removal of the bolts on numbers 2 & 3?

A picture probably shows best what I am reffering too! (Apologies for the low quality, its an old camera and is struggling to adjust its focus at that close-range a target.)

It appears that they just need fractional movements to rotate them far enough for the bolts to clear, but its enough to warrant removing the locking tool :o

I'm happy to hold my hand up and say "I'm an idiot and have done it wrong" if thats the case!

[620Turbo]

Thanks for the words of encouragement! :blush:

Everything seems lined up alright from the outside (markings on both front and rear sprockets aligned, camshaft pulley double-dots lined up with casing...) but today I've come to tackle the big one - the head bolts!!

Well, I have one part of the cam carrier on each the inlet and exhaust, that is blocking 100% removal of the bolts on numbers 2 & 3?

A picture probably shows best what I am reffering too! (Apologies for the low quality, its an old camera and is struggling to adjust its focus at that close-range a target.)

It appears that they just need fractional movements to rotate them far enough for the bolts to clear, but its enough to warrant removing the locking tool :o

I'm happy to hold my hand up and say "I'm an idiot and have done it wrong" if thats the case!

Rob,

I am very pleased to tell you that is 100% normal.

I take it you have the crank pulley off and the two dots on the cog are either side of the line on the oil pump housing? This indicated 90 deg BTDC, which is when the cams are lined up as you say.

Take a photo and post it up here!

When you have the belt off and the cams locked, you need to take out the locking tool and rotate each cam slightly, enough to get the lug out of the way and withdraw the 2 head bolts that are obscured. It is 2 IIRC.

Stupid idea. don't know why it is like that, but it is.. .. ..

[620Turbo]

camshaft pulley double-dots lined up with casing...)

Sorry Rob, I assume here you mean crankshaft and not camshaft? In which case it sounds right :)

[GT]

Ahhh, that is good news! :D *Phew*

Yes, the pulley is off and the 2 dots align either side, I didnt need to do anything there, t'was all done for me by the time I aligned the markings at the top :)

Unfortunatley, said camera cant seem to fit in the gap effectivley to get a picture of the apropriate area and now the batteries have died :rolleyes:

However, it does look like the Haynes diagram! (sorry to swear there ;) )

Rotating the cams individually is currently not possible due to the 2nd cambelt holding them together, but I'll see if it can be done somehow... If it has to be taken off, so be it, but it doesnt look that old and is nicely keeping the cams aligned with each other as they are too far away for a locking tool.

I've also noticed that the inlet cam carrier is in 2 halves on the VVC, and are not connected in the middle (driven by the rear cambelt from the exhaust carrier).

I've only noticed 2 bolts with the intrusion!

Speaking of bolts... this'll give you a giggle, here's a pic of an exhaust manifold bolt! You have no idea how much swearing it too to get those off, especially with myself having been wound-up by the tensioner pulley before that :lol:

[GT]

Sorry Rob, I assume here you mean crankshaft and not camshaft? In which case it sounds right :)

Yes, you are right, I meant crankshaft!!! :hit1:

I will edit the original post :lol:

[620Turbo]

Rotating the cams individually is currently not possible due to the 2nd cambelt holding them together, but I'll see if it can be done somehow... If it has to be taken off, so be it, but it doesnt look that old and is nicely keeping the cams aligned with each other as they are too far away for a locking tool.

I've also noticed that the inlet cam carrier is in 2 halves on the VVC, and are not connected in the middle (driven by the rear cambelt from the exhaust carrier).

You should be able to do it without removing the rear sync belt.

You should not need/don't want to undo the carriers. As soon as they are undone, you are in a whole world of VVC related pain.

[King Minger]

Jeez... I'm sure there's a bolt under there somewhere!

[GT]

Al - Did you mean in the camshaft carrier? - If so, You should see the vast quantities of that stuff I have bottled up :lol:

If you meant the rusted bolt... well I'm gonna need some new ones :o

Well, the head bolts are out (hooray!) but now I am having difficulties in removing the head itself.. brute (but careful) force may be the only choice as the most likely to be, steel dowels may have rusted and are helping to keep it in place.

Open to any suggestions in the mean time for ways of persuading it to leaving willingly ;)

[620Turbo]

Al - Did you mean in the camshaft carrier? - If so, You should see the vast quantities of that stuff I have bottled up :lol:

If you meant the rusted bolt... well I'm gonna need some new ones :o

Well, the head bolts are out (hooray!) but now I am having difficulties in removing the head itself.. brute (but careful) force may be the only choice as the most likely to be, steel dowels may have rusted and are helping to keep it in place.

Open to any suggestions in the mean time for ways of persuading it to leaving willingly ;)

If you have the head bolts out, you may need to give it a bit of a "tug" and it will shift.

[GT]

Probably not my smartest move, but I gave it a bit of an all-out effort tug earlier and finally it cracked loose.

I'm hoping the crack wasnt anything important from the engine! :eek: But my arm is now aching a little, so I think I've pulled something :rolleyes: :(

It's brought to light however that I've missed the disconnection of a few items 'north' of the cambelt in the bay - fuel and coolant if I am not mistaken?

However, this investigation as to what is connected has proven that the VVC inlet goes a lot deeper down than the injection rail on my 105.

Specifically, I notice what may be a support beam connected to it?

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data/512/Is_this_a_vvc_support_beam.jpg

Shown between the 2 red lines, this goes from the lower casting underneath the well acclaimed 'VVC' badged inlet. I'm hoping that it doesnt connect to something other than the cylinder head itself, as there appears to be no 'bolts' for it within what I have seen so far. I think the next bit is another case of proceed with caution, as this if nothing else wanders beyond the knolwedge of all my non-VVC guides :D

A quick peek into what previously seemed like a 'full' engine bay has given me a new sence of perspective and just how 'empty' my 105's engine bay really is!

[GT]

Enough for today me thinks, I didnt really get anywhere with that yet and now dinner has arrived, so onto more important things :lol:

[620Turbo]

Enough for today me thinks, I didnt really get anywhere with that yet and now dinner has arrived, so onto more important things :lol:

Rob, take the head off with all the inlet manifold and gumf in situ. You simply need to undo the fuel return line, which you can see in your picture as the rubber hose with the metal spring clip connection.

You will also need to undo the fuel input into the rail, which is two 8mm bolts and then pull it out squarely, when you have pulled it off, hang it over the filter and block it. You will lose a little fuel in the process, so put your fag out!!

Coolant connection, not sure there was one into the VVC manifold. . .

[GT]

Yup, thats the plan... I'm just hoping that the marked out beam, which is connected to the inlet, isnt going to stop me from doing so. It looks like it goes much lower than the head on the other end. There re also no signs of any bolts on the top, connecting it to the inlet manifold, just what appears to be a hinged joint.

RE: Fuel and coolant hoses...

In the above picture you can see 2 hoses connected with those spring clips, a slightly rusty one next to the yellow connector, which I believe is the fuel return line?

Also, below it, right on the edge of the right hand side of the picture, approx half way down is another hose with a brighter, similar clip. This hose goes round and back to the radiator?

As for the fuel input to the rail, I'm not familiar enough with the engine without looking at it... is it the 2 bolts of which you can see one at the top of the picture?

Sorry to be a pain in the arse with my dumb questions again, but I'd rather get it right than think I know what I am doing and stuff it up :lol:

[620Turbo]

Yup, thats the plan... I'm just hoping that the marked out beam, which is connected to the inlet, isnt going to stop me from doing so. It looks like it goes much lower than the head on the other end. There re also no signs of any bolts on the top, connecting it to the inlet manifold, just what appears to be a hinged joint.

RE: Fuel and coolant hoses...

In the above picture you can see 2 hoses connected with those spring clips, a slightly rusty one next to the yellow connector, which I believe is the fuel return line?

Also, below it, right on the edge of the right hand side of the picture, approx half way down is another hose with a brighter, similar clip. This hose goes round and back to the radiator?

As for the fuel input to the rail, I'm not familiar enough with the engine without looking at it... is it the 2 bolts of which you can see one at the top of the picture?

Sorry to be a pain in the arse with my dumb questions again, but I'd rather get it right than think I know what I am doing and stuff it up :lol:

Hello Rob.

It is difficult without seeing it mate.

You will know the fuel return and I am sure it is the rubber hose you can see in the pic, with a spring clip. (cylinder number 1 end) It will go along the bottom of the manifold/to the bulkhead area and then down towards the bottom of the engine bay - underneath the car to the tank. Disconnect that.

Fuel input is easy to find. Look at the fuel filter on the bulkhead (as I remember it is there) you will see a hose coming out of it and going to the end of the fuel rail (cylinder number 4 end, the opposite to the return as the fuel goes along the rail and into the return hose)

The input will have two bolts holding it into the fuel rail IIRC.

[GT]

I can what ya mean about not seeing it, I need to go back and look as well.

From your description, I think I have already removed the fuel input, with the return still to do.

Cheers for the help once again :drink2:

[GT]

Right.. fuel input is definately out, coolant pipe now also removed.

Here is a better shot of the engine bay to show the coolant pipe connecting just behind the dipstick. (and I dont mean the one behind the camera :D)

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/P5070004.jpg

I've also had to undo the extra support beam in my previous photo (post #164). Thats a real pain to get to, that one!

Here's a view from the underside...

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/P5070002.jpg

Now I believe the only bolt stopping me from removing the head (as all else seems free) if the bolt that connects the cambelt inner cover to the coolant pump! The problem being there isnt enough space to get all bar my smallest 8mm spanner in there and the bolt is rounding :o

I'm gonna just have to keep trying with that one me thinks.

[GT]

Finally got the bolt off (Not sure how, it just suddenly gripped and twisted off!)

Now, the down side...

The inner cambelt cover snapped when we pulled the head off - need a new one :o

But, the head is off... I've managed to get a few last pics, before the batteries died in the camera (again!) To me.. this doesnt look good?

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/P5070019.jpg

Full size HERE : http://gallery.brit-cars.com/showphoto.php/photo/1631/size/big

[620Turbo]

Hi Rob,

Looks like a right old mess.

My apologies, if I did not say in my destructions that you need to remove the inlet and exhaust cam pulley and the bolts that hold the back of the cam belt cover to the head, you then remove the head with the back of the cambelt cover in situ - so it does not snap!

Anyway, it is very common, most of the Rovers I have worked on which have had a previous HGF have a snapped cam belt back cover as it saves the monkey mechanics having to take more bits apart.

You may be able to put it back like that and just make sure the cover is not gonna contact the belt. . . . .

You need to clean it all up with loads of kitchen roll, remove the duff head gasket. Then inspect the pistons and liners. Clean it all up with the razor, etc and then measure the liner stand proud and adjacent difference(s).

Matt.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

Looking at your head gasket picture again, it seems the head gasket itself is in a right state and it is very obvious where it has failed.

See around the bolt holes, the beading seems to have totally given up, allowing coolant to pass into the sump!!

Nice.

It is the MK2 MGR head gasket by the look of it - the post 2000 "fix".

[GT]

Dont feel you owe me an apology for the plastic casing, none is required! Afterall, no-one is forcing me to follow your advice :D :lol:

Looking closer at it, with the dirt build-up around the breakage, I think that it must have been cracked prior to my involvement anyway and all I've done is finish the job :lol:

I'm sure it can be sorted easilly enough!

Yes, the gasket is in a right state, and yes its all drained out of the sump nicely :lol: There's a picture in the gallery of 3, 2-litre bottles full of toffee yoghurt ;)

The missing seals are actually hanging off of the underside of the head, but even from whats left it is still a loose and broken all around.

Thanfully, despite a lot of dirt in the cylinders, it does appear to be 'removable' with comparitivley little fuss, with no scratches or damage beyond that of what appears to be normal wear.

The gasket is loose and lifts right off, the head is currently dripping onto plastic sheeting in my garage. I'm hoping it'll all look much better after a good clean... then it's the starter motor and the oil rail! :D

Even if it still goes bits up, I'm impressed that I've gotten this far :D

Thanks again Matt :drink2:

[620Turbo]

Rob, the plastic cover probably was broken. You probably won't need to change it and it will make it easier as you can then put the head back on without having to take off the pulleys, etc.

Be good to see it when it is clean, taking the sump off to fit the rail will give you a chance to get the rest of that junk out of the sump.

Need to get all surfaces absolutely mint for that MLS gasket to seal properly. It will probably take you a bit of time, but will be worth it as you do not want to have to strip the whole lot down again.

Been there, done that. Take as much time as needed, now it is all apart to get everything you can spot on.

Matt.

[GT]

I've just been looking back over the thread for the tolerances for the liners vs the head surface for the MLS gasket - I must be going blind cuz I cant find it now, even though I'm sure I've read it :confused:

I've found the tolerences for the bolts (yet to be tested).

EDIT : Just realised they were probably on the Land Rover documents I have printed off at home!

[620Turbo]

Let me know if you haven't got them Rob and I will dig them out.

There are two which need checking:

1. Liner protrusion above deck (block face) must be between two values for each liner.

2. There must not be more than a certain amount of difference between the height of adjacent liners.

I am sure it will be fine.

You also need to check:

Cylinder head face for any sign of fire ring damage (the fire ring is the circle on the head gasket around each chamber). If it gets too hot, the fire ring can burn into and dent the head face = scrap head.

Liners, head and block face. Nice and level with no dents or marks. Dents can be repaired. Check liners for any visual signs of cracking. You will be able to do all this easily when the block is cleaned up as you can see the top 1/3 of each liner.

A stitch in time and all that.

Matt.

[GT]

I've done a little bit more tonight... it's somehow easilly passed away 2 hours, but it didn't seem like 5mins.

I have started on the cleaning of each half, no scraping yet, just a paper towel wipedown.

Well, heres the improved view of the cylinders, bigger version in the gallery as usual.

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/P5080010.jpg (http://gallery.brit-cars.com/showphoto.php/photo/1632/size/big)

I have noticed some minor marking in the metal around the bolt hole and the outer edge in the top left, not sure how major/minor a factor this is. The best way I can describe it is just 'rough' wheras the rest of the edges are comparitivley smooth. However on the horizontal plane of the mating face, it sll seems pretty smooth.

The hardest part comes next with the removal of some pretty well baked on carbon deposits on the piston tops and inside the indendations for the valves.

The only other thing I noticed is some minor surface rust on the liner on cylinder 3 (3rd from left in the pic?). This can be felt by running the finger along it, so hopefully will clean up alogn with the rest.

I may try some meths as you suggested earlier on.

I looked up that Landie PDF and got the tolerance to be 0.075mm - seemsfairly smooth or pretty damn close, so I hope this will be OK! :D

As for the head itself, well its now upside down, and I've got a good photo of that as well. Unfortunatley these last 3 pics wiped the batteries out from their overngiht recovery, so a trip to get some more is on the cards :o

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/P5080011.jpg (http://gallery.brit-cars.com/showphoto.php/photo/1633/size/big)

I have since cleaned it up a little, just as I did with the block face and its looking better, although not as good yet as the block face.

This will need a little more work, and again an issue with the carbon deposits! Also the exhaust bank looks a little rusty, although its bad surface rust again rather than structural (I think). I'll need to clean this all carefully. :)

[620Turbo]

Well done Rob, you are doing a good job! ;)

Keep at it.

You need to get the two mating faces perfect. Try some wire wool on the rough bit, gently.

Any little nicks or imperfections you have on the head and block face once you have got it sparkling, you can fill in with liquid metal, getting it to be exactly the same as the rest of the surface. I have used this before on a block where a monkey had dropped a ratchet or something which had dented it.

As I said, there are two tolerances, liners above deck height and difference in adjoining liners. I am sure it will be fine. Use a straight edge over the top of the liners and a feeler guage.

I use a razor blade in a wall paper scraper thing to get the carbon off, very carefully and gently. Try meths or cellulose thinners is even better.

Need to check the head and block face(s) for distortion.

I probably wouldn't bother with the replacement cam belt cover back, so long as it is not too bad and gonna touch the belt. You can probably sort it anyway, if it rubs with something or another. If you try to change the cover you are gonna have to remove the cam pulleys on the front of the head and the VVC has a reputation for the bolts shearing and BANG if it is not done correctly.

Matt.

[GT]

Well, I've been spending some more time cleaning today.. this time the head surface.

Well, its kindda going alright, but I've noticed some errr markings which I suspect will need repair?

The bit on the far right of the picture is an imprint of part of the previous gasket. See the atttched pic for areas being reffered too, but click HERE (http://gallery.brit-cars.com/showphoto.php/photo/1738/size/big) to see the markings in more detail...

[GT]

2nd update for the day... been putting some more elbow greace in :)

Click to enlarge!

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/cleaner_head_full.jpg (http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data/512/cleaner_head_full.jpg)

Its much better than it was.. but will it be good enough?

I am concerned about some of the markings, am I right to be so?

I also notice the photo shows up a lot more of the marks fromt he cleaning itself that there appeared to be when looking at it - I'm starting to think this head is going to give me headaches :o

[620Turbo]

Rob,

You need to assess how bad they are. Both surfaces should be totally flat, so the gasket gets evenly pinched in between.

I have repaired small dents and imperfections in the block surface with liquid metal before with very good results. It is pretty workable and you are able to get it totally even with the surrounding surface before it goes off.

When it goes off it is hardcore. Not sure whether this will work for what you are gonna need without seeing it, but I would be carefull about skimming it cos I reckon that head has probably had a couple of skims already . . .

[ZS]

Rob,

You need to assess how bad they are. Both surfaces should be totally flat, so the gasket gets evenly pinched in between.

I have repaired small dents and imperfections in the block surface with liquid metal before with very good results. It is pretty workable and you are able to get it totally even with the surrounding surface before it goes off.

When it goes off it is hardcore. Not sure whether this will work for what you are gonna need without seeing it, but I would be carefull about skimming it cos I reckon that head has probably had a couple of skims already . . .

So where do we get the liquid metal from then? ;)

[GT]

Where else but... one of the UK's largest B&Q megastores ;)

I'm just testing it out on an old billy-can, but the dents on there are far more extreme than I will need to fill on the head.

[GT]

620Turbo : Sorry to trouble you again...

I've tried some of this 'liquid metal' stuff on the old bily can and now over 27 hours later it feels a little rubbery... with a tactile quality more like hardened blu-tack?

Its no longer tacky to touch and seems to be fixed to the can alright, unless I stick a sharp edge and scrape it off. It just wasnt quite what I imagined from the name 'liquid metal'. I was expecting something a little more... well, metal like?

Have I got the right stuff?

[GT]

Actually.. nevermind. I've been around a few more places today and this stuff seems to be either the best suited or on par with a similar product from any factors or even halfords!

A bit of destruction testing on the billy-can today shows that now its dried a lot better, the finish, although stil like blu-tack, is actually hard and doesnt mark with nails. Although I did get it to peel off when sticking a blade to the edges!

Considering the much much smaller quantities being used for the head and that its unlikely to have a blade put to it, I've started to try a bit on the head.

What have I to loose?

Well... I probably cant skim it, and even if I could it requires more money and time, which I am running out of. So if this doesn't work, or if I dont try it, the alternative is probably a new head.

If it seems to work, it all goes back together and it gives me another HGF. Well, I've learnt, I've tried. It'll mean pulling it all apart again and buying a new gasket and a new head, so it'll have cost me the price of the head anyway, plus the gasket.

Of course, I am not too experianced in this yet - so I may find it could cause worse damage and kills the engine. In which case, I spend a grand on getting one fitted and I've spent the retail value of a Vi on the Vi. Not ideal, but it still gives me an un-financed car, although costs me yet more time! :)

The descision is of course my own and if it doesn't work, that is also my own responsibility!

[620Turbo]

Hi Rob,

Can't remember if what I used was "liquid metal" exactly, but it was something similar bought from Camberleys IIRC.

After a time, it hardened as hard as the metal around it, so when it was in a small dent in the head or block, it seemed to do the job well.

I know that some dealers use this too. A pal of mines Dad had an R8 216 twin cam honda lump, which blew a head gasket. The head had started to go porous and showed a few marks here and there. They repaired it with Liquid Metal, or something similar and the car has now done 60,000 miles since without a problem.

The alternative at the time was a new head and basically think about writing off the car.

[GT]

Its not looking too bad in the smaller quantities, needs some tidying though.

Not sure whether it will be good enough, time will tell. I'll ask at CAF if they can suggest anything if this doesnt work.

[MartinW]

I haven't been following this thread as closely as I would have liked, but caught up again this afternoon, WOW! You have been a busy boy! I reckon you will be very pleased with all the results when it's completed! I am sure it will work well, reckon your next challenge is to fit that engine in a BGT! :)

[GT]

Thanks Martin :drink2:

Todays update.... this weekend I have removed the oil sump, cleaned up most of the ****, taken off the old rail and replaced it with the new one.

I have pictures at home, will post up the gallery later on...

I have some questions about the sump...

Firstly, the Haynes manual describes a gasket/seal that should fit between the sump and the block... however, my sump has no such gasket. Should it?

Secondly, my Haynes manual (which doesnt cover the 1.8) also suggests that I should have 3 long bolts in positions 4, 8 and 12. I have two long bolts in positions 11 and 12.. both in front of the flywheel casing. All other bolts are identical (although replaced in original positions) and I have the correct number of them.

Which brings me onto Q3, the Haynes describes 3 bolts to secure the sump to the flywheel casting, but again I only have 2, although it looks like I may have space for a third? A missing bolt perhaps?

In addition, last weekend I took my head to see H.A.S in Poole at the Kingston Lacey event with the Spridget club. Very friendly and seemingly knowledgeable chap who has suggested that my head is good enough to retry with the new MLS gasket kit. However, as the head has been previously skimmed, it wouldnt be a job he would guarantee for a customer of his own as there he has found that there are too many issues with previously skimmed heads. :)

Looks like I could be among the first the test the theory on the VVC with the MLS!

Thanks to Trevor at HAS for his valuable input :drink2:

[620Turbo]

Thanks Martin :drink2:

Todays update.... this weekend I have removed the oil sump, cleaned up most of the ****, taken off the old rail and replaced it with the new one.

I have pictures at home, will post up the gallery later on...

I have some questions about the sump...

Firstly, the Haynes manual describes a gasket/seal that should fit between the sump and the block... however, my sump has no such gasket. Should it?

Secondly, my Haynes manual (which doesnt cover the 1.8) also suggests that I should have 3 long bolts in positions 4, 8 and 12. I have two long bolts in positions 11 and 12.. both in front of the flywheel casing. All other bolts are identical (although replaced in original positions) and I have the correct number of them.

Which brings me onto Q3, the Haynes describes 3 bolts to secure the sump to the flywheel casting, but again I only have 2, although it looks like I may have space for a third? A missing bolt perhaps?

In addition, last weekend I took my head to see H.A.S in Poole at the Kingston Lacey event with the Spridget club. Very friendly and seemingly knowledgeable chap who has suggested that my head is good enough to retry with the new MLS gasket kit. However, as the head has been previously skimmed, it wouldnt be a job he would guarantee for a customer of his own as there he has found that there are too many issues with previously skimmed heads. :)

Looks like I could be among the first the test the theory on the VVC with the MLS!

Thanks to Trevor at HAS for his valuable input :drink2:

Rob,

Not sure about the bolt positions mate.

Have you got access to RAVE? If not, that is what you need. . . .

Re: Sump. There is no gasket, but you use a compound on the two joining faces.

I would put the head on first and do the sump last as there has been talk of the end long bolts touching the sump pan and then obviously torquing off too soon when you are tightening - thus they are not clamping but are pushing into the sump pan!

Clean the oil strainer, if you have not already. It probably has swarf stuck in the gauze which may reduce oil pressure. Only a bolt or two to get it off I think.

[ZS]

Rob,
Have you got access to RAVE? If not, that is what you need. . . .


Rob... If you need access to RAVE let me know and I'll lend you my copy ;)

[GT]

Sam, looks like I might have to... and to locate some of this compound!

Matt, Thanks for the tip about the sump causing the bolts to torque off early.. that could be a headache to get that far and find its all thrown out the window by something as simple as that :hit1:

We gave everything a clean when it was taken apart, asides from the mayo effect inside the sump, there was actually very little else in there, none of the flakes etc I was expecting so see, which I had read about before.

The main cam belt is defo in need of replacement, I found some damage to it, that doesnt inspire me - Halfords dont seem to do one that looks right for the VVC, so down to X-Part I guess :o

Then its the engine mount off to swap that over, and trying to fix the starter motor...

Then I can re-assemble! But the clock is ticking...

I've already missed the MOT deadline and now have the car SORN.

[GT]

Starter motor, I would take it off, degunk it and lube it up. You can test it by running a lead to it from the battery (jump leads) and then grounding it with your foot on it. Only 12v so nothing to worry about. You are looking for the pinion to lurch out and spin. Check the pinion teeth are not knackered too. You may be able to clean it up, get it working and save yourself some cash.

You should be able to get it off when you have the head off as you will have better access - provided you have not rounded any bolts.

Well, the start motor is now off... all teeth are in place o nboth the flywheel (that I can see) and the starter motor, no signs of any real damage?

The battery is now dead (charging) so i have not tested whether it powers up yet, but the starter motor seems free-moving to me.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

Test the starter motor off the car.

Run a negative lead onto it and touch the positive onto it. You will need your foot on the motor as they are pretty powerful and will "jerk" when they spin up.

You should see it extend tha spin.

May need some lubricating and de-gunking of cag - which may be stopping it extending out when powered.

As you are probably aware, you won't get any shocks or anything as it is all 12V, so you can touch the contacts, etc.

[GT]

Just a thought... will I be able to use the battery charger like a set of jump leads?

[Tony]

Only if you have a charger that is specifically rated for starting loads. Most aren't.

[620Turbo]

Only if you have a charger that is specifically rated for starting loads. Most aren't.

Sorry Tony, Should have explained myself better.

I meant run two leads from a 12V battery, not the battery charger, which would not be able to supply the current the starter will draw.

[Tony]

No need for apologies, I was responding to a question Rob asked which has since been deleted.

[GT]

Ooops, was suprised anyone responded... post now restored.

I realised it was a dumb question after I posted it and spoke to King Minger! :D


Mines a trickle charger, so wont supply enough current to get the motor started.

[GT]

OK... after trying to get the starter motor started myself with no joy, Misfit was kind enough to run some tests on my behalf with some proper equipment and experts ;) (Thanks!).

The starter motor is apparantly fine, but the solenoid has completely gone, so I need a new one!

[GT]

I've not kept this thread upto date with my lastest acomplishment!

A coolant pump sourced from X-Part (£48) has been fitted, although slightly different to my original, I managed to work out how the final bolt was supposed to go :hit1: Picutres will follow eventually, but it was a simple 5-bolt off and on job, with a bit of a hammer tap to loosen it and take it from 2 locating dowels.

As many of you may have noticed on my other thread about starter motors... I have now sourced a new one from Lucas!

Last night I managed to fit the new motor to the gearbox with its 45Nm of torque suggested by Haynes (See, it is good for something! :D).

I also noticed the block needed a bit of a spruceup again, so out came the meths and gave it a bit of a tidy up once more!

I've also 'washed' my ECU case as that was previously black and now looks more like the original silver :D

The next step? Well, as best as I can tell, I need to lower the oil sump again (to stop the head bolts torquing off), then the MLS gasket kit gets fitted! :D Then the head goes back on, the head bolts get tightened, the oil sump gets replaced and torqued off! Then I need to replace the pulleys I removed and loosened...

Then... I can fit the new cambelt, as I can support the engine on the sump (at that point, refitted), while I undo the engine mount to swap the belts over.

Incidently, does anyone have any tips for how to remove the mount?

Once the belt is done, the car can move again and not loose any timing :D

I can reassemble the airbox quite easilly, but I will need to source some bolts to re-fit the exhaust manifold as 3 of mine are not suitable for re-use, although I could try - just for the sake of getting the car a test start-up :D

Light at the end of the tunnel? Possibley so!!

[620Turbo]

I've not kept this thread upto date with my lastest acomplishment!

A coolant pump sourced from X-Part (£48) has been fitted, although slightly different to my original, I managed to work out how the final bolt was supposed to go :hit1: Picutres will follow eventually, but it was a simple 5-bolt off and on job, with a bit of a hammer tap to loosen it and take it from 2 locating dowels.

As many of you may have noticed on my other thread about starter motors... I have now sourced a new one from Lucas!

Last night I managed to fit the new motor to the gearbox with its 45Nm of torque suggested by Haynes (See, it is good for something! :D).

I also noticed the block needed a bit of a spruceup again, so out came the meths and gave it a bit of a tidy up once more!

I've also 'washed' my ECU case as that was previously black and now looks more like the original silver :D

The next step? Well, as best as I can tell, I need to lower the oil sump again (to stop the head bolts torquing off), then the MLS gasket kit gets fitted! :D Then the head goes back on, the head bolts get tightened, the oil sump gets replaced and torqued off! Then I need to replace the pulleys I removed and loosened...

Then... I can fit the new cambelt, as I can support the engine on the sump (at that point, refitted), while I undo the engine mount to swap the belts over.

Incidently, does anyone have any tips for how to remove the mount?

Once the belt is done, the car can move again and not loose any timing :D

I can reassemble the airbox quite easilly, but I will need to source some bolts to re-fit the exhaust manifold as 3 of mine are not suitable for re-use, although I could try - just for the sake of getting the car a test start-up :D

Light at the end of the tunnel? Possibley so!!


Rob, Hope you washed the ECU case carefully. Any moisture can muck it up, although IIRC, the MAP sensor for a VVC is not integrated within the ECU, so there is no vaccum pipe running from the engine to the ECU.

Did you just put the sump back on loosely? You need to use gasket compound and get both surfaces reasonable. Not as good as the head and block obviously as it is not as critical.

The engine mount off is easy peasy. Support the sump on a jack, with a bit of wood to spread the loading - just undo the bolts. The torsion bar comes off first and is just two bolts, one either end. Then, start undoing the three bolts that hold the RHS ally bracket to the engine. Make sure the jack is taking the weight and the bolts come out nice and square. Some cars (Ti, for example) have a torsion bar between the front and the front of the sump, which you need to undo or the torsion bar starts pulling the sump forwards and the bolts start bending as they are coming out and you can risk knackering the threads.

Once you have started to loosen the three bolts above, undo the centre nut on the hydramount and take this off. Withdraw the three bolts completely and then undo the two nuts securing the hydramount and brace to the body. You then have it all out.

Putting it all back is the reverse, but you need to be very careful with getting the three bolts back between the bracket and the engine. I think there is a dowel which locates the bracket onto the engine, so when it clicks into place, look down and the threads should be lined up. Only then, put the three bolts back in. You may need to jack the engine up and down, push it back and forth in the bay to get them to line up properly, but if you simply stick the bolts in and try and tighten them and it is not all lined up, you can strip the thread - I have done it and it was grief. My fault entirely, trying to rush it.

Taking it's time, but sounds like it is coming along well mate.

[GT]

I should have checked back sooner, but went ahead and tried it, and it appears to have been sucessfull.

There were markings on the bolts already, presumabley from a previous attempt, which made choosing which bolts etc quite an easy choice and a comparitivley quick task!

Right... its been a long weekend, where do I start?

The head is back on!! (and torqued up).

The oil sump has been 'gasketed' and torqued up.

All the electricery has been plugged back into the head and various places.

The pipes have all been reconnected, including the fuel inlet.

The cambelt has been fitted and the pre-tensioner put back on.

The cambelt covers have been put back on, with the exception of the earlier broken bit which didnt seem to want to go... but its a small section against the block.

The crank pulley is in place, but needs to be torqued up to 160Nm and I don't have a torque wrench that powerful! Thanks to 'Neil The hat' I may be able to borrow one tomorrow :D

The rocker cover has been cleaned up, new gasket fitted and torqued up.

The oil filter was done a few weeks back, along with the thermostat when I did the oil rail changeover...

The battery is now in-place and the RCDL seems to be working again and my alarm light flashes. Not tested the alarm yet - nor the immoboliser :eek:

Anyway, list of things left to do are :

* Torque the crank pulley up.
* Re-fit the pulleys for the power steering and the alternator
* Fit 4 new spark plugs
* Fill with coolant
* Fill with oil
* re-fit the airbox assembley.

I can probably skip the last one when it comes to testing if it will turn over - but light is at the end of the tunnel!

Of course, to make it pass an MOT it'll need me to refit the headlamps and bumper :lol:

Then it needs a new fog lamp (stone chipped to death) and probably some brake pads!

I hope this all works or I've got a very expensive paperweight :o

[Tony]

An extremely busy weekend there Rob. One more like that and it'll be done.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

Make sure you have tensioned the cam belt correctly.

DO NOT turn the engine on the starter. Turn it over by hand a few times and make sure it all feels OK - if there is anything wrong, you will not damage much this way.

It is very easy to get a VVC one tooth out somewhere.

You know how to fill it with coolant - undo the bleed screw in the metal rail, get the 50/50 mix in cans and pour them in til it runs out the bleed screw, then put the bleed screw back in.

Top it up to mid way, then run it with the cap off, heater on hot, but fan not on. As the engine warms, you will need to keep topping it a little to mid way, then before the fan cuts in, the level will rise up, when the fan comes in it will drop again. You are looking for a steady flow of coolant from the return pipe at the top of the expansion tank - this means air has gone. When you rev the engine, the flow should increase in pressure.

If this car had contamination HGF, you will need to run a couple of cycles of Forte biodegreaser through it before you put the new coolant in. This stuff will totally clean out all the gunk from the cooling system if there is any there.

The car may be a pig to start, where the hydraulic tappets have lost their oil. Don't keep turning the car over.

The trick is to do it in short bursts. 3 seconds on the starter, 15 seconds off. This allows the oil which gets into the tappet chamber to enter the lifters before the cam wacks it out of them again. Done this way, you will hear the car start trying to fire within a minute and will have it running within 2 or 3.

Before you try and start it, double check all the basics, fuel lines, ignition connections, plug leads to correct place, VVC solenoid and oil temp connections on the right plug (easy to mix them up) etc.

[GT]

Got any good tips for checking the cambelt is taught enough?

When trying to put some initial tension on the crank pulley bolt, it has turned and all the bits seemed to go around with no trouble. The cambelt pulley tensioner has a clear mark where the bolt used to be, and it is in the same place as before - a good sign?

The belt seems to be of the same tension as before, but I dont know how easy it is to tell if it is wrong or not.

The 2 marks on the cam sprokets were still aligned after placing the cambelt on, and the crankshaft sprocket was also still asligned. On the reverse side of the head, the other 2 sprockets were also still aligned. The tool remained in place during fitment, and the middle 'tounge' (as opposed to groove) was lined up with the markings on both sides).

If I sound confident - dont believe it, I'm very paranoid that something has been done wrong, missed or messed up and that I'm going to end up with something thats a complete waste of 3 months and a few hundred £££!

Forte biodegreaser is something I had not thought of or even knew about :D

But yes, there coolant system is contaminated - you should have seen the thermostat :eek:

I've obviously cleaned everything I have seen or could get to, but there will always be some.

I cant thank you enough for all the guidance you have given throughout all of this! :drink2:

[620Turbo]

Rob, no problem.

Get the forte stuff. It is excellent and is what the MGR dealers used when doing the 10 a week HGF's they were doing a few years ago.

You will need two treatments, leaving the engine running for half an hour or so, cylcing the fan on and off, etc. You then take off the bottom hose and let it all drain out. Then, backflush it a few times to try and get all the cack out. The radiators can sometimes be really bad and need replacement, so you need to keep a good eye on everything for the first hour or so of running.

Upon start, look around the head and block join for signs of water running out (you don't want to see this).

Also, look for lots of bubbles in the expansion tank, indicating combusion gases blowing by into the cooling system (all of this should be a non event as you seem to have done a good job!)

Once the engine starts to warm, you need to keep an eye on the temperature, and as I say, it will cylce about a bit, but you need to make sure the cooling fan comes in and out a few times. You may need to hold the revs at 1500 - 2000 rpm for this and it will take a while the first time as the core temp of everything will take a while to rise up. The next time, it will be much quicker as the core temp of everything will be high to start with.

The K series is pretty fragile in comparison to other engines, especially when changing the coolant with air locks and stuff like that. You therefore need to take care and take every precaution with respect to bleeding it, etc.

How did you tension the cambelt. From what you have said, the timing will be spot on though!

[GT]

Placed the belt on the cogs, put the tensioner in place, did it up most of the way on the allen key bolt, then levered the adjuster back to its former location and used a swan-neck to tighten that into place, before torquing off the allen bolt. It wasn't the easiest job to get it into place, but I took some time on it and it seems to have worked.

Then I noticed the spring and bolt in the box :o But I dont know really how to use it, the sheet that came with it just says as per Rover service guide (RAVE?) but I cant get my copy to work at the moment :o

But it seems OK and would rather not have to attempt to remove that 8mm bolt again unless I have to cuz its a pig :lol:

[620Turbo]

Rob,

You need to use the spring to tension the belt.

The way it works on the non VVC, is you undo the centre allen type bolt by a turn or two and the same for the 8mm bolt.

The tensioner then moves freely by the spring tension. You turn the crank two revolutions like this and then do nip up both bolts IIRC.

Have you not got access to RAVE?

[GT]

The RAVE CD I have doesn't work on my PC (it's not the date issue).

Im not sure where the spring or bolt would fit? :confused:

[620Turbo]

Refit

1. Clean timing gears, crankshaft drive gear, coolant pump drive gear and tensioner pulley. CAUTION: If the sintered gears have been subjected to prolonged oil contamination, they must be soaked in a solvent bath and
then thoroughly washed in clean solvent before refitment. Because of the porous construction of sintered material, oil impregnated in the gear will
emerge and contaminate a new belt.

2. Check correct alignment of camshaft gear timing marks and that 18G 1570 is locking camshaft gears.

3. Fit drive gear to crankshaft, ensure dots on gear are aligned with flange on oil pump.


Replacement timing belt

4. Fit and tighten pillar bolt supplied with replacement timing belt to cylinder head.

5. Connect spring, also supplied with replacement timing belt to pillar bolt and tensioner.

6. Loosen backplate bolt and ensure tensioner moves fully through its adjustment range and returns under spring tension.

Replacement and existing timing belts

7. Push tensioner down to the fully OFF position and tighten backplate bolt to 10 Nm. CAUTION: If original timing belt is being refitted, ensure direction of rotation mark is facing the correct way.

8. Using fingers only, fit timing belt over crankshaft gear then over camshaft gears, keeping belt taut between crankshaft drive gear and exhaust camshaft gear. Then position belt over tensioner pulley and coolant pump
drive gear.

9. Check that the timing belt is positioned centrally around all gears and pulley.

10. Fit timing belt lower cover.

11. Raise engine to correct height.

12. Position mounting bracket to engine and RH hydramount, fit mass damper, fit and lightly tighten nut.

13. Fit bolts securing mounting bracket to engine and tighten to 135 Nm.

14. Align restraint bar, fit and tighten nuts to 45Nm.

15. Position RH steady bar to mounting bracket, fit and tighten bolt to 85 Nm.

16. Tighten bolt securing RH steady bar to body mounting to 85 Nm.

17. Tighten nut securing mounting bracket to RH hydramount to 85 Nm.

18. Remove jack.

Tensioning an existing timing belt

1. Loosen tensioner pulley Allen screw 1 /2 turn.

2. Loosen tensioner backplate bolt 1 /2 turn.

3. Position tensioner to align to reference mark on backplate and cylinder head.

4. Tighten tensioner backplate bolt to 10 Nm.

5. Tighten tensioner pulley Allen screw to 45 Nm.

6. Remove camshaft gear locking tool 18G 1570.

Tensioning replacement timing belt

1. Loosen tensioner pulley Allen screw 1 /2 turn.

2. Loosen tensioner backplate bolt 1 /2 turn.

3. Apply tension to belt by applying finger pressure to tensioner backplate.

4. With tensioner pulley against timing belt and backplate held in position, tighten tensioner backplate bolt to 10 Nm.

5. Remove camshaft gear locking tool 18G 1570.

6. Rotate crankshaft clockwise two complete revolutions and align camshaft gear timing marks. CAUTION: Do not use camshaft gear retaining bolts or timing belt to rotate engine.

7. Loosen tensioner backplate bolt and check that belt is being tensioned by tensioner spring.

8. Tighten tensioner backplate bolt to 10 Nm.

9. Tighten tensioner pulley Allen screw to 45 Nm.

10. Release tensioner spring from pillar bolt and tensioner, remove and discard spring.

11. Remove and discard pillar bolt.

Replacement and existing timing belts

12. Fit camshaft timing belt upper cover.

13. Fit auxiliary drive belt. See ELECTRICAL, Repairs.

14. Connect battery earth lead.

18G1570 is just the Rover version of the cam locking tool you have and are using to lock the pulleys.

[620Turbo]

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/showphoto.php/photo/2262/size/big/ppuser/45

The numbers in the picture apply to the first lot of activity numbers in the above post.

[GT]

Cheers - will take the cover off and have another stab at it. Hope the bolt doesnt give me too much grief :o

[620Turbo]

Cheers - will take the cover off and have another stab at it. Hope the bolt doesnt give me too much grief :o

Nah, it will be fine. Just use a nice quality socket on her.

I know it is a pain, but you need to get this stuff right. Did you use a new cam belt?

It seems the tensioner/belt comes with a spring/pillar bolt, etc.

[GT]

Yes, its a new one from X-Part... although open the box and it has 'UNIPART' slapped all over it :lol:

Access with a socket set is difficult to its its proximity to the engine mount, should I be undoing this again to try and get some moore room to get the socket in? Its only the 8mm bolt (#6) I have issues with, the allen bolt has enough clearance for the ratchet.

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/rob1.jpg

[620Turbo]

Yes, its a new one from X-Part... although open the box and it has 'UNIPART' slapped all over it :lol:

Access with a socket set is difficult to its its proximity to the engine mount, should I be undoing this again to try and get some moore room to get the socket in?

Yeah, it is well worth getting friendly with the local unipart dealer. There is one near me and when we serviced my mates 420GSi (T series), the parts cost came to £80 less than Rover parts, for exactly the same stuff.

This included new plug leads, which were the pucker ones, cut to size, numbered, filled the plug hole, etc.

Only difference was the cambelt, which was a Unipart belt, wheras the MGR one is made by Gates (not Bill and not a blue screen in sight).

[620Turbo]

Yes, its a new one from X-Part... although open the box and it has 'UNIPART' slapped all over it :lol:

Access with a socket set is difficult to its its proximity to the engine mount, should I be undoing this again to try and get some moore room to get the socket in? Its only the 8mm bolt (#6) I have issues with, the allen bolt has enough clearance for the ratchet.

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//512/medium/rob1.jpg

Rob, you need to do it with the engine mount off I am afraid. Still, should only take a few minutes to sort that now you have done it before.

Only need the top cambelt cover off though. If you have the right socket and ratchet, it should be easy. The 8 mm only needs to be nipped tight really, - thats why it is only a baby 8mm. The centre allen bolt is the one which holds it in position.

[GT]

Loosen backplate bolt and ensure tensioner moves fully through its adjustment range and returns under spring tension.
I take it from that, the 'tightening' point of that bolt is simpley where the spring returns to its 'natural' state? With the spring being a high enough rating to pull it into position?

[620Turbo]

I take it from that, the 'tightening' point of that bolt is simpley where the spring returns to its 'natural' state? With the spring being a high enough rating to pull it into position?

Yeah, I think that bit of it is when there is no cambelt on though. Just a check to make sure it all moves freely. Don't bother taking the cambelt off, just do the bits it says later on, with the finger on the tensioner, etc.

Does not seem to scientific to be honest, but if the tension is wrong, you risk the engine, but also can get some weird resonance noises from the belt, etc.

I had this on my Ti as I over tensioned the belt. Do exactly as they say, I made the mistake of making is a bit "tighter" and pushing a bit "harder".

Could have cost me. As it was, I just had this weird belt resonance noise for 60K.

[GT]

Tensioning replacement timing belt
1. Loosen tensioner pulley Allen screw 1 /2 turn.
2. Loosen tensioner backplate bolt 1 /2 turn.

3. Apply tension to belt by applying finger pressure to tensioner backplate.
4. With tensioner pulley against timing belt and backplate held in position, tighten tensioner backplate bolt to 10 Nm.

5. Remove camshaft gear locking tool 18G 1570.
6. Rotate crankshaft clockwise two complete revolutions and align camshaft gear timing marks. CAUTION: Do not use camshaft gear retaining bolts or timing belt to rotate engine.
7. Loosen tensioner backplate bolt and check that belt is being tensioned by tensioner spring.

8. Tighten tensioner backplate bolt to 10 Nm.
9. Tighten tensioner pulley Allen screw to 45 Nm.
10. Release tensioner spring from pillar bolt and tensioner, remove and discard spring.

11. Remove and discard pillar bolt. Replacement and existing timing belts


So am I reading it right... tension it up on the spring, tighten the bolts, turn the crankshaft to rotate everything, then undo the bolts and check the spring is still the same tension, before re-doing the bolts?

Thanks for all this extra input - very much appreciated :drink2:

[620Turbo]

Rob, just follow what they say to the letter and it will be sorted.

It is slightly different to the normal K, which I have done a dozen of.

You only nip up and undo the backplate bolt, which is the 8mm jobbie. The allen one, you do when all is OK and the tension is finally set.

[GT]

Followed as suggested :thumbs1:

I spent ages trying to figure out what was going wrong, as the tensioning didnt seem to be working :confused:

Thankfully, 5mins with Sam (thank you!) showed the eyelet within the 'lip'(?) of the backplate where the end of the spring loops through... I was originally tucking it in the groove above that :hit1:

Anyway, thankfully from that point on, the intructions seemed to follow through and the tension point seemed to match up perfectly with the marks left on the backplate from the previous cambelt's installation, which I assume can only be a good sign?

Now all covered back up, the crankshaft pulley is back on and torqued up to its 160Nm! (:eek:) Thanks to Neil the Hat, for lending me his massive torque wrench!

It was a mission and a half to get that torqued up :lol:

Anyway, the airbox assembley has been put back into place, with new filter.

When refitting this however, I suddenly noticed a cable break(!) when fitting the intake behind the headlamp... it connects the negative terminal to the chasis :o

Now I need to replace this small cable as I have no circuit completion and my RCDL has stopped working (along with god-knows what else!!)

The PAS and alternator belts are also now both on.. although the correct tension needs setting on them both.

I've put 2 litres of oil in to start with (the first can) and no leaks so far (which is a good sign :lol: ) I will add some more later.

I've also picked up some new spark plugs as the old ones were gunked up, nothing fancy, just some Champion ones from Halfords... not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either.

Then I think thats it?

The engines had a few turns now thanks to the crank pulley... no issues there, all seemed to move smoothly enough?

So left to do summary :

1) New earth / negative terminal
2) Fit spark plugs
3) Tension PAS belt
4) Tension alternator belt
5) top up oil
6) Add coolant flush

7) Start engine? :eek:

Might have to sit on the back burner for a week... now I can move the car, it will have to be rolled into a corner for a few days to make way for the 100 or so guests we have for Saturday :eek:

[620Turbo]

Rob,

Whats the score m8?

[GT]

Apologies for my delayed reply - I've been away since you posted, and very busy leading upto it!

With familly visits, my Dad's wedding, BTCC and other events, my weekends have dissapeared :eek:

The new negative lead has been sourced, but not yet fitted... other than that, the car is pretty much as above still.

I still need to source the coolant flush!

* Negative lead to be fitted : Est Time 5mins.
* Oil to be topped up : Est Time 5mins.
* Spark plugs to be fitted : Est Time 10mins.
* Tension PAS belt : Est Time unknown.
* Tension alternator belt : Est Time unknown.
* Add coolant flush and bleed system : Est Time 10mins.

Then start the engine... :D

Its a scary thought actually... but I need to push forward again now, as the Tax and Insurance have been paid for the ZR again (was hoping to miss those) and the service is due on it too.

Now my deadline will be the bad weather of the Autumn fast aproaching!

I recon its only another day's worth before it will run, but its finding the time to do it :)

[GT]

Todays update!

Negative lead fitted : Time taken, 2 hours!!

I already had loosened the old bolt, the nut was no longer fixed to the bodywork, so it was all loose. It was doing up great until it stopped, just too far away to get a connection... I tried to undo it, but it refused.

Lots of cursing later, I decided it wasnt going to move, to put my jnr hacksaw to the job to cut the old bolt in half... then upto the scrappy to find a new one! Finding a new, much better one was easy, although I had to remove the nut from the body using some pliers! Scrappy couldnt be bothered to mess about charging me for one 8mm bolt, so I got it free :lol:

Got it home, straight fitment, job done!

Last 2L of oil was put into the engine, no signs of any leakage inthe last 2 months and the levels were still as I left them, so I'll take that as an initial good sign :D

Spark plugs now measured to their 0.8mm and fitted to their 25Nm torque limit! The leads and covers have all now been re-fitted!

Coolant also purchased and ready to go in.

Intermittent weather and a requirement to raise the car again for access have put a damper on continuing today, but I can t wait to get it finished!

Left to do :

* Tighten PAS belt
* Tighten alternator belt

Then... start the car :eek:

[Tootall]

Well done Rob after all your hard work (with some help ;) ) i am sure that VVC will kick into life on the first turn of the key and then at last you would have reached the light at the end of the tunnel :ukwave: .

[GT]

Cheers Keith, hindsight as they say is a wonderful thing!

If I had been told at the start I would be looking on September before I would of finished, I probably would never of started the project!

There has been plenty of grief and headaches along the way and unfortunatley I still don't think I can class myself as anything other than a follower of instructions!

The weather has cleared up now, but its getting late and I dont have the stands or jack yet (need to borrow them from Sam again! :blush: )

I hope that your optimism is well founded, if it doesnt work after this, then I am going to be at a loss of what to do :o

But you're right about the help, absolutle brilliant people who have come to my aid in many respects...

ZS & revdpeter3rd - who have both lent me their time and equipment to help me on my way.

Not to mention that they have both been used as hard labour to push my car about on a few occasions! (as has my brother, step-mum, and other friends)

Neil the Hat - for lending me his expensive mega-powerful torque wrench for those few bits mine cant quite reach!

...and of course (but not limited to) Byron, MartinW and yourself who have all managed to chip in bits of useful information or just general support and encouragement when needed!

I'd also like to thank my extremely understanding father and ' wicked step mother' who have kindly let me invade their driveway and garage these last few months, this will not be in vain as this is the first step in getting rid of me completely! :lol:

I think thats covered most people... although got a feeling I've forgotten someone.... :confused:

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data//577/medium/P8260001.jpg

Oh yes, of course - 620Turbo :D :D :D ;)

This thread alone must of doubled his post-count, but a true example of quality, over quantity! An absolutely MASSIVE help evey step of the way!

Thank you all - I hope I have some engine life soon to report! :drink2:

Then its a new bumper crash box, 2 headlamps, all round brake pads... :lol:

...which reminds me, nearly time to sort the pads on the ZR (and service it :o)

When this is done, I'll be talking to Tony about some stickers, too ;)

[Tootall]

Hope to see it at Wicksteed then Rob :p

[GT]

Thats a fairly tall order, but will try :lol:

I need to getthe rest of the car together, get it insured, MOT'd and taxed to be able to take it to Wicksteed :o

[ZS]

When do you want the Jack and Stands?

Maybe I should start Hiring them out to you ;) lol

[GT]

I already have some plans for recompence! Just need to see how things pan out first ;)

This time, it'll be a case of raise the car, do the work and lower it as a single session, although I could kiss an evening or afternoon goodbye when I do it I suspect :lol:

The sooner I start, the sooner I finish, will see if I can do the work during the week and get the weekend for troubleshooting when it doesnt work :lol:

[ZS]

I was only playing GT, I'm not asking for any recompence :)

I'll see if I can get an evening off this week to help out :) then I can bring the tools over and see if we can't kick this car into first for a test drive :)

[GT]

Martin has also offered assistence - needs a push back out of the corner first, so that will require some leg-work :D

[620Turbo]

Hello Rob, Like the dig bout me post count there :happy1:

Anyway, when are you gonna try and start her up. Not sure if I did post, but you will very likely have trouble starting it.

Need lots of short bursts. 2 seconds on starter, 15 seconds off. Tappets will have drained meaning low compression, so simply cranking the engine over for ages will do naff all.

There will be a fair amount to watch for when it does start. Get the flush in there and make sure you follow the correct procedure for filling the system.

:cheers:

[GT]

Gonna try and pickup the stands and jack again tonight :D

Hopefully will try to start over by the weekend ;)

I suspect it will take a few rounds to clear out the gunk!

[GT]

:(

Well... belts now tightened.. and the start of the coolant has gone into the system.

But 2 problems...

1) The bleeding nipple head sheered off with little effort, so now I can't open it :(

2) The fuel hose pipe connector sprung a leak after I turned on the ignition, once the ignition was off, the spurts stopped, but I'm going to need to resolve this :(

The torque setting for the 2 bolts is only 10Nm, they're easilly that, the only thing I can think of is that the o-ring needs replacing, tiny little thing IIRC, but I guess it wont take much to upset it.

Guess I need to find a new o-ring and find a different way to bleed the system! :cry:

[ZS]

Guess I need to find a new o-ring and find a different way to bleed the system! :cry:

Take a trip down to nutborne and pick up a replacement pipe with bleed nipple and fuel pipes...

Won't cost you much at all :)

[GT]

New o-ring ordered at X-Part for this afternoon, cost - £1.50!

Good idea about the pipe, will have to take a look at how easy it is to get to the pipe now the head is back on...

[King Minger]

you could always take the head off again.... :lol:

[GT]

[Omega Supreme]Sarcasm not appreciated[/Omega Supreme]

:lol: ;)

I dont think I will need to, although the airbox assembley will be comming out again!

[GT]

Right, just taken a look this morning at the pipe... it is unlikely that I can change this easilly as it feeds udner the VVC badged inlet manifold and bolts to the back of the engine block :o

In other words, not an easy task unless I remove the head again! :eek:

http://gallery.brit-cars.com/data/577/coolant_pipe_with_bleed_nipple.jpg

So, for now I've chosen to leave that bit!

Anyway, the fuel hose has been removed again and the o-ring checked, it got pinched when last done up and torn, so this is most likely the cause of the leak :hit1:

I've since replaced this o-ring with the new one and now the there is no sign of a leak when the pump is turned on with the ignition.

So... I've tried to turn it over a few times on the 3/15 second split as suggested by 620Turbo. Sounded promising, no signs of 'fireing' yet but no nasty sounds either.

Then the battery died :lol:

So now I'm waiting for that to charge up, then I can give it another go :(

Nerves are kicking in big-time now :eek:

[Tootall]

I am sure once the battery has charged you will be soon running the garden shouting 'Its alive Its alive' :woohoo:

[MYCaptainChris]

What a job GT. As a qualified engineer I don't think I would have taken on the VVC HGF. I've been looking at a few cars on autotrader and fleabay with HGF but I'd get someone to fix it for me. As with you, you can pick up some real bargains with HGF.

I found a spotless low mileage 214 with HGF and thought about a new engine or repair the head? wonder which would be the best option, new 1800 or new garrrrsget on the 1400??

Well you have more pantience than me waiting for that battery to charge, I'd be there pulling batteries from the ZR, the neighbours car, my shaver and anything else with power.

[620Turbo]

Rob,

You can change that pipe by having a go from underneath, or removing the inlet manifold.

[GT]

Rob,

You can change that pipe by having a go from underneath, or removing the inlet manifold.

No need, as we've now gotten the stub out and replaced the screw :D

I am sure once the battery has charged you will be soon running the garden shouting 'Its alive Its alive' :woohoo:

[620Turbo]

Heh heh.

Well done. That will save you some agro.

[Tootall]

:shrug: Come on Rob did you get the beast started?

[Tony]

Rob's MSN sign in suggests he did :thumbs2:

[King Minger]

I've seen it and it goes!